2Hoppers on HomeAdapter

[tsimm]

Can I run 2 hoppers on a Home adapter(plug-to-internet)?

One Hopper hard wired to duo-port,the other via wireless network?

I have a 4 port wireless router with 2 spare ports,so can I simply plug it into a wall-plug adapter and then into the second Hopper from other adapter?

If so,will I still have separate,individual tuner and DVR ability from each hopper?
Is there a simpler way to accomplish this without another coax from hopper to DuoPort?

Thanks in advance for all of your help.

 

[JSheridan]

The Hopper MUST have a 3Ghz RG6 coax from the node to the Hopper.

A Joey will work with a Dish wireless adapter and your home network or the new Wireless Joey and access point which creates it's own wireless network.

 

[bigjohnok]

The Hopper MUST have a 3Ghz RG6 coax from the node to the Hopper.

A Joey will work with a Dish wireless adapter and your home network or the new Wireless Joey and access point which creates it's own wireless network.

stay away from the wireless joey because the wap(the router basically) has crap signal strength and the setup doesnt like having walls between the wap and wireless joey.

 

[tsimm]

Ok,I am not explaining things very well.

I have 2 Hoppers with Sling,New,less than 6 months old.

I want to run both Hoppers from a single coax,via wireless router connection.

Running single Hopper is not a problem,I have RG6 from node to Hopper.

Can I plug the first Hopper into a Wall Adapter,and from there into my Router,then into the 2nd Hopper?

How do the Hoppers select individual channels?Do they use voltage levels to switch from HD to SD,or do they use a digital signal to the Node?

In an experiment, I split the signal from the Node to the 2 Hoppers,and the first one powered up had control of the channel selection.

The 2nd one did not detect any satellites at all,but of course,I could watch all recorded programs.

I powered#2 up first,and the symptoms reversed;the original#1 Hopper could not find any satellites.

The signal flow shown on their website shows signal to Hoppers contains both MOCA and satellite leaving the node on host port.

So the Duo port must be splitting the signals on the second port to the 2nd host port?

Is this done by addressing,or hardware?

Could I put a duo-port to split the single RG6 at the first Hopper,and send it to the 2nd Hopper?

A lot of silly questions, I know, to someone who understands the system thoroughly, but I am just getting my feet wet now, so please bear with me.

Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[JSheridan]

Each Hopper must have it's own 3Ghz RG6 coax from the node to the Hopper, if that's what you're asking. There are no other options.

 

[bigjohnok]

you have to have a due node to run two hoppers.

now you dont have to use the client ports because you can use taps(which is basically a really small node) hooked to your host ports on the duo node and then the host port on the tap goes to your hoppers and use splitters off the client port of the taps to wire in all your joeys.

now the issue with this if your cable runs start getting really long you will see yellow moca which might cause some communications issues with your joeys.

you can also use cat 5 to run joeys(now this isnt an official install practice) but I have seen customers do it and it works.

 

[n0qcu]

NO, each Hopper must have a coax cable connected to the duo-node (must be a DUO) and THREE cables from the node to the dish.

 

[tsimm]

OK,that settles it.

I will run separate coax RG6 to node.

But out of curiosity,how do they actually split or select the channels at the Node?

Is this via hardware,software, or a combination of both?

Does each Host output have a separate address?

There must be quite a bit of processing going on inside of the Duo Node.

I realize these may be questions for an engineer,but I am curious about it.

Any feedback is always appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[bigjohnok]

I dont know how the nodes work exactly(I just install them and replace them needed) just that as long as you have your 3 lines coming off the dish and both hoppers connected to the host ports, then they will see each other and work.

you only have to have two lines running to your home for a dual hopper set up and like I said before you can use taps and splitters to finish configuring the system.

if you are purchasing your own equipment get 2 nodes because its good to have a spare sitting around and that is the a single failure point in the hopper system.

 

[tsimm]

Thanks,BigJohn

I have that part covered,pretty well,thanks to everyone's valuable input.

Still,I am curious about how it actually works.

It has to be more than a signal combiner, or splitter,or else a simple DC Passing splitter would work on the Hoppers.

It must actually be a network architecture to do what it does.(Just a wild guess at it!)

There has to be "Talk" going on between the Hoppers and the node?

Any engineers aboard that can answer these questions?

 

[Jim5506]

As I understand it, it is both a satellite switch (duo node) and a network (MOCA) switch or hub.

 

[JSheridan]

The node is powered by the Hopper and passes power to the three DPP satellite LNB's. It also combines the 3 feeds (tuners) from the dish onto one wire to go to the Hopper. MoCA comes from the Hopper on the same wire and passes through the node (or a tap). The client port just filters out and delivers the low frequency MoCA.

 

[tsimm]

Ok, that I understand,but if all 3 LNB's are combined onto the coax feeding the hopper,why will a DC passing splitter not work to attach another Hopper?

The signal has plenty of strength,and picture is excellent on either Hopper,but whichever Hopper powers up first has
control,the other one cannot even find a signal.

If this was a typical analog signal the splitter would work.

This leads me to believe that there is some addressing going on within the Duo2,only allowing access to the first to power up?

The signal must be digitized before being sent down the coax,with 2 way data between the receiver and node.?

Has anyone put an o'scope or network analyzer on the signals?

 

[bnewt]

stay away from the wireless joey because the wap(the router basically) has crap signal strength and the setup doesnt like having walls between the wap and wireless joey.

are you talking about Dish's wireless setup?

 

[tsimm]

No,the hard wired system.Even when not wireless,there has to be some type of communication between the Duo2 node and the Hoppers to distinguish one from another,and to exclude the non-first receiver.

 

[JM42]

You can't just split the cable, because the cable is never carrying all the data from the satellite(s).

Simplifying a little, each coax from a DPP Dish supports 2 Tuner "pathways." Each of these "pathways" is block of about 500mhz bandwidth and transmits basically half a satellite worth of data - either all the odd transponders or all the even transponders.

In a VIP dual tuner receiver, Tuner1 may tell the switch built into the LNB assembly "Send me even number transponders from Sat 119" while Tuner2 may be saying "Send me odd transponders from Sat 110." Back in the dual tuner days, this meant a single coax from the Dish could support a two tuner DVR.

Hopper comes along and adds a third tuner. A single node takes one of the tuner "pathways" from the second coax feed, up converts it, and stacks it onto the line feeding the Hopper. The reason the Hopper requires 3ghz cable is because this third pathway placed in the 2500 to 3000mhz band. Likewise a Duo node splits the two pathways from the third coax and gives one pathway to each Hopper.

There probably isn't a need for a lot of smarts in the node, its a pretty straight forward up/down conversion of the DPP frequencies from the extra coax to the third band supported by the Hopper, and filtering the sat frequencies from the client (moca) ports.

Again, this is simplifying and will make the engineers cringe, but hopefully explains the basics.

 

[tsimm]

Ok,but what mystifies me is that both hoppers are getting the same signal,off of the same coax.Which ever hopper is turned on first,"grabs"" the signal,and will not let it pass thru the splitter.Well, it really does not prevent the signal from passing through,but the 2nd Hopper will not get any satellite signals.
The signal will pass through the splitter if #2 hopper is turned on first,instead of number 1 hopper.That is why I thought there might be some addressing going on in the duo node.
The signal level on the splitter remains the same on both ports no matter which one is switched on.Swapping the outputs on the splitter makes no difference.The input from the duo node is on the in/out/dc port of the splitter,all ports pass dc for powering up the node,etc.
I used to install the old C Band systems, and I am familiar with the older systems of polarizer servo for even/odd channels,and the original VSO requiring an LNA (Before LNB's were invented.)The down converter was on the mast,and a channel was selected by a voltage sent from the receiver.The down converter was a Voltage Switched Oscillator.
Then came LNB's which made 12 channels available at the receiver.The LNB did the down converting from 3.2 Ghz to 950-1450 Ghz.(which contained all 12 channels.), A band spread of 500 Mhz.,which I see they still maintain.But everything else has changed...a lot.
Much better picture quality,much smaller dish,simpler installation,and simpler operator operation.
I just like to know the nuts and bolts of a system to satisfy my curiosity.I know a schematic is proprietary,so I know that is out of the question,however a detailed functional block diagram would be helpful.
Thanks

 

[JM42]

The second receiver can't talk to the switch in the LNB because it is busy with the first receiver. Obviously, there is some protocol between the receiver and the switch in DPP architecture. The minutia of that protocol has never really interested me. There may be some level of translation at the node, but it would be minimal. You would see the same basic behavior with any VIP or DPP compatible receiver without a node involved at all. The whole point of the node is to make the Hopper compatible with existing DPP equipment.

 

[tsimm]

Thanks!At least I know that there is indeed some software involved in the process,not merely hardware.I suspected as much,but needed verification from someone that really knows.The details of the software are not really important,but to an old "Analog Guy" the mere existence of software is significant,and explains why a simple "Dumb" splitter will not work.
I also realize that the RG6 could not reliably carry two receivers if they were on separate channels.
Thanks again for your help!

 

[tsimm]

Thanks for all the help on my previous question,and I have another one that may seem simple to the experienced:
Will a dip-lexer,which combines and then separates tv from satellite signal on same coax work on a Dish system,with Hoppers?
This would allow local and satellite without a USB dongle.Simply switch input source on tv.