am i missing anything hd on ku

[outbackjack]

as i continue to learn this am i missing anything that is hd on ku band? is it worth buying an hd receiver or is it just junk channels transmitting hd on ku. i know cband has hd but what might be there including feeds that are hd on ku?

 

[guapoharry]

There are HD sports feeds and HD network feeds (notable network ones are S2).

I'd say a LOT of temporary feeds are HD or 4:2:2 so unless you have a receiver (az box for example) or PC card that has codecs for that you won't see them

Then there's PBS on 125. Three to Five of those are HD depending on what you can receive.

Why don't you browse around on Lyngsat and the list to see.

Some people might say there is not a lot of full time HD. That's probably true. But what there is, is awesome quality...

 

[outbackjack]

thank you quapoharry. i never knew what 4:2:2 but i will look for a card that does that codec. i will take a look at lyngsat also for some reason i thought that it wasnt really up to date.

 

[bruin95]

i never knew what 4:2:2 but i will look for a card that does that codec.

Basically, they all do. I have a pc card that's around 10 years old that handles 4:2:2 with the proper codecs.

 

[B.J.]

The PC receiver cards don't have anything to do with the capability of playing 4.2.2 or HD channels. If the card can tune the mux, it will handle 4.2.2 or HD or MPEG4 no differently than regular SD MPEG2 4.2.0. Even the oldest PC receiver cards can handle 4.2.2, HD and MPEG4. It is the software that determines whether you can play these modes, not the card. Most people don't use the software that comes with PC receiver cards, so the only issue is whether the card is compatable with the 3rd party software. Where the card does come into play is what it can lock. Personally, most of the time I use my old Twinhan 1020a card. I generally use it with TSREADER, and view 4.2.0, 4.2.2, SD, HD, MPEG2, MPEG4 either by streaming to VLC or to external devices like ROKU, PopCornHour or the Azbox, however the 1020a only tunes DVB-S signals. If you want to tune DVB-S2 signals, you will need a more modern, more expensive card. Also, some cards like the 1020a will tune DSS signals, some other cards like the Genpix will also tune DCII and turbo QPSK/8PSK modes. So basically the card just determines what transponders you can lock, but doesn't effect the ability to view 4.2.2 or HD or other video modes. That's done with software.

EDIT: One other place where the card's specs are important is the SR's it can handle. Some cards can't tune some modes at high (>30000) SR values. Other cards have issues below 2000 SR values. But again this just determines what muxes it can lock, not what video modes can be played.

 

[Babadem]

The PC receiver cards don't have anything to do with the capability of playing 4.2.2 or HD channels. If the card can tune the mux, it will handle 4.2.2 or HD or MPEG4 no differently than regular SD MPEG2 4.2.0. Even the oldest PC receiver cards can handle 4.2.2, HD and MPEG4. It is the software that determines whether you can play these modes, not the card. Most people don't use the software that comes with PC receiver cards, so the only issue is whether the card is compatable with the 3rd party software. Where the card does come into play is what it can lock. Personally, most of the time I use my old Twinhan 1020a card. I generally use it with TSREADER, and view 4.2.0, 4.2.2, SD, HD, MPEG2, MPEG4 either by streaming to VLC or to external devices like ROKU, PopCornHour or the Azbox, however the 1020a only tunes DVB-S signals. If you want to tune DVB-S2 signals, you will need a more modern, more expensive card. Also, some cards like the 1020a will tune DSS signals, some other cards like the Genpix will also tune DCII and turbo QPSK/8PSK modes. So basically the card just determines what transponders you can lock, but doesn't effect the ability to view 4.2.2 or HD or other video modes. That's done with software.

EDIT: One other place where the card's specs are important is the SR's it can handle. Some cards can't tune some modes at high (>30000) SR values. Other cards have issues below 2000 SR values. But again this just determines what muxes it can lock, not what video modes can be played.

Brilliantly said, B.J.!

 

[ynnedibanez]

The PC receiver cards don't have anything to do with the capability of playing 4.2.2 or HD channels. If the card can tune the mux, it will handle 4.2.2 or HD or MPEG4 no differently than regular SD MPEG2 4.2.0. Even the oldest PC receiver cards can handle 4.2.2, HD and MPEG4. It is the software that determines whether you can play these modes, not the card. Most people don't use the software that comes with PC receiver cards, so the only issue is whether the card is compatable with the 3rd party software. Where the card does come into play is what it can lock. Personally, most of the time I use my old Twinhan 1020a card. I generally use it with TSREADER, and view 4.2.0, 4.2.2, SD, HD, MPEG2, MPEG4 either by streaming to VLC or to external devices like ROKU, PopCornHour or the Azbox, however the 1020a only tunes DVB-S signals. If you want to tune DVB-S2 signals, you will need a more modern, more expensive card. Also, some cards like the 1020a will tune DSS signals, some other cards like the Genpix will also tune DCII and turbo QPSK/8PSK modes. So basically the card just determines what transponders you can lock, but doesn't effect the ability to view 4.2.2 or HD or other video modes. That's done with software.

EDIT: One other place where the card's specs are important is the SR's it can handle. Some cards can't tune some modes at high (>30000) SR values. Other cards have issues below 2000 SR values. But again this just determines what muxes it can lock, not what video modes can be played.

very good to know,
thanks for the info,
Denny

 

[B.J.]

One thing I should have mentioned, is that even though software may play 4.2.2, HD and/or mpeg4 streams, it sometimes takes a pretty fast computer to do the high bitrate stuff. My computers are a bit on the old side, in the 1.8-2.0 GHz range, and I can just barely play HD around the 18 mbps range of bitrates, but cannot play high bitrate HD. But people with faster computers can play the high bitrate stuff with the same software.
I generally play high bitrate HD by streaming to either my ROKU HD1000 or PopCornHour, and watch it on TV. I can stream medium bitrate stuff to my Azbox. But the thing is that the card and computer can handle bringing even the quite fast streams into the computer, and streaming it directly, but it's pretty processor intensive to display it.
The ROKU will play 4.2.0 MPEG2 with bitrates up as high as 40MBPS. The PopCornHour plays SD/HD 4.2.0 MPEG2 and MPEG4 (not sure of upper bitrate), but only plays SD 4.2.2 . The Azbox will play live high bitrate 4.2.2, and you can stream medium bitrate 4.2.2 but it won't play streams or recordings of high bitrate anything.

 

[outbackjack]

thanks guys i think i am being swayed to the dvbworlds2 with blindscan. that should do the trick for the moment i thought about roku also but i havent researched it. it would be nice to do netflix but i am using a wii for that.

 

[Tron]

Another thing to consider is that MPEG-4 requires a far more powerful computer (or hardware acceleration on the PC's video card). Most semi-modern PCs will play 18 megabit MPEG-2, but the same bitrate in MPEG-4 might be unplayable. In these cases, hardware accelerated video cards can be your best friend...

 

[B.J.]

Another thing to consider is that MPEG-4 requires a far more powerful computer (or hardware acceleration on the PC's video card). Most semi-modern PCs will play 18 megabit MPEG-2, but the same bitrate in MPEG-4 might be unplayable. In these cases, hardware accelerated video cards can be your best friend...

This is something that has always confused me, ie
(1) playing video via software CODECS
(2) utilizing hardware acceleration in your regular video card
(3) using a separate video processor card for hardware acceleration

When I first started using PC cards, I was able to play up to approximately the 18 mbps PBS HD mpeg2 stuff on my 1.8 GHz computer (although that computer got bloated, and later lost the ability to play PBS clean. At that time, I couldn't come close to playing the high bitrate stuff, like the CBS 4.2.0 HD, however at that time people posted that they COULD do that on their computer using separate video processor cards. I forget the brand names of those cards, and never was able to find one that was affordable. People were also suggesting that I utilize the hardware acceleration on the video card already on my computer. I was never completely sure how to do this, other than checking a box in the video properties, which never seemed to make much difference one way or the other. I know that some people used programs that allowed you to use graphedit to chose exactly how the video was processed, and I briefly experimented with that, but I usually ran into roadblocks, relative to not having some CODEC required, or the CODECs availabe not being compatable with others, or (more likely) just not being knowledgeable enough to know how to set things up with graphedit.
Anyway, since I generally like to use TSREADER with VLC anyway, I don't think VLC works with graphedit anyway, so I eventually just abandoned the idea of displaying high bitrate stuff, and bought the ROKU (which isn't sold anymore). Since the Roku didn't do mpeg4, I later bought a PopCornHour, which handled most anything mpeg2 or mpeg4 I threw at it, as long as it was 4.2.0. It also did SD 4.2.2 I think. It was obvious though, that the ROKU and PCH were apparently using hardware acceleration, as the CPUs in those devices were MUCH slower than my PC, and yet did high bitrate HD without a problem. I forget exactly what video card was built into the ROKU motherboard, but I think it was an ATI card, and I was using one of the high end ATI cards on my computer, so I thought that my computer's card should have similar acceleration, but if it did, I sure didn't know how to access it. I have since switched to an even newer video card, and performance improved a bit, but I still can't do the real high bitrate stuff.
Also, relative to mpeg4, initially, I couldn't get VLC to play any mpeg4 video at all. It would try to play it, but would get all jammed up, play for a couple seconds then stop. Recent versions of VLC, however do a fairly nice job on MPEG4, and I can usually play MPEG4 HD up to somewhere in the 10 mbps range I think, but it bogs down a bit when I try playing stuff up around 15 mbps, but this is really equivalent in quality to HD of about twice these bitrates, so I was generally pretty impressed with the MPEG4 performance relative to MPEG2 performance, even though the bitrates it could handle are slower than the MPEG2 bitrates.
I also like to compare performance relative to streaming to the Azbox. Seemed like I couldn't stream anything higher than the 18 mbps PBS to the Azbox, if that, however I was able to ALMOST stream some MPEG4 stuff that was up somewhere in the mid 20 mbps range, but I can't remember the particulars. This kind of convinced me that relative to equivalent quality, that mpeg4 was actually easier for a computer to process, partly because it requirred a lower bitrate for the equivalent quality. However if you're stuck using software CODECs, and have a CODEC that isn't very efficient, which I think was my initial issue with VLC, then it needs a much more powerful computer.

Anyway, I'm still confused relative to how to use your video card's hardware acceleration with VLC. If anyone is knowledgeable about that, I'd appreciate more discussion about that.

 

[Tron]

I have never had much success using VLC to play back MPEG-4/AVC. The PC I'm currently using has an ATI 1300 video card, which does not have hardware accelerated MPEG-4, but I get fairly acceptable results on low bitrates using Media Player Classic Home Cinema. With an ATI HD2600 or higher video card, I would be able to play back AVC without issues. This is an old AMD Sempron 1.5 ghz PC.

 

[B.J.]

I have never had much success using VLC to play back MPEG-4/AVC. The PC I'm currently using has an ATI 1300 video card, which does not have hardware accelerated MPEG-4, but I get fairly acceptable results on low bitrates using Media Player Classic Home Cinema. With an ATI HD2600 or higher video card, I would be able to play back AVC without issues. This is an old AMD Sempron 1.5 ghz PC.

My laptop has an ATI Radeon Express 200M running on a 1.8 GHz AMD Athlon DT. It has a slidebar to select different levels of hardware acceleration, which is set to the max, but I have no idea of whether this acceleration includes MPEG4, or whether VLC is using it or not. I'm not sure how to force use of hardware or tell if it's being used.

My desktop used to have an ATI Radeon of some kind.... I think it was something like a 9200, which when I bought it was one of their better cards. It too had settings to use hardware, but there was no mention of MPEG4 or any other video format, and no way to tell if hardware was being used. That card died, and I replaced it with a Diamond S120 DDR Radeon 9550 . This card has a fancy Catalyst Control Center, which has all sorts of settings, but the only setting related to hardware is a checkbox to enable "Windows Media Video Acceleration". Again, no mention of whether it applies to MPEG4, and it's not clear whether this means that it only functions when using the Windows Media player, or if it functions with other software like VLC, and no way to tell if it's actually working. There is another window in the CC dealing with AGP, which says that the AGP speed is 8X, which is apparently automatically set, but can be manually reduced. I'm not sure if this AGP acceleration is related to the hardware acceleration used for MPEG4 or not, but even if it is, I'm guessing that VLC isn't using the acceleration.

When I first started trying to play MPEG4 stuff, the Media Player Classic was recommended to me, and I tried it, and it didn't work perfectly, but did work a bit better than VLC. However I really need to use VLC, due to it's compatability with TSREADER, so I stopped using MPC, and recent versions of VLC seem to be much better with respect to playing MPEG4. VLC will even play some of the DN MPEG4 HD channels that occasionally are found FTA, although it seemed to choke on their highest bitrate channels that are around 15 mbps.

 

[Tron]

The oldest ATI card that will accelerate MPEG-4 is the HD2600. It is available in an AGP configuration, although I believe that was the last card that is. All of the newer ones are PCI-e. I don't think the 9000 series cards will accelerate HD at all. The X1xxx series were, I believe, the first to do hardware accelerated MPEG-2 HD.

 

[comfrey]

Don't know if this is 100% relevant...
I used VLC on my mac mini and found the 1080p content would sputter away, then I found this article on how to "tune" it.

» Play 1080p Content on Mac Mini @ mr. Obsession

Anyway to make a long story short it actually improved my HD experience.



Anyway, I'm still confused relative to how to use your video card's hardware acceleration with VLC. If anyone is knowledgeable about that, I'd appreciate more discussion about that.[/QUOTE]

 

[B.J.]

Don't know if this is 100% relevant...
I used VLC on my mac mini and found the 1080p content would sputter away, then I found this article on how to "tune" it.

» Play 1080p Content on Mac Mini @ mr. Obsession

Anyway to make a long story short it actually improved my HD experience.
....

Thanks. Interesting. The FFmpeg menu looks different in the PC version of VLC, and doesn't have the options mentioned, but I see several other potential settings there that I haven't messed with. Thanks.

 

[outbackjack]

so with all this i have read can i get one card or usb boc that will do it all. i dont want to buy a tv card and also a satellite card if possible. i want to be able to put the thing in the putter and move the dish and receive atsc and hd. is that poss with any cards or usb boxes?

 

[Babadem]

I have never had much success using VLC to play back MPEG-4/AVC. The PC I'm currently using has an ATI 1300 video card, which does not have hardware accelerated MPEG-4, but I get fairly acceptable results on low bitrates using Media Player Classic Home Cinema. With an ATI HD2600 or higher video card, I would be able to play back AVC without issues. This is an old AMD Sempron 1.5 ghz PC.

Don't know if this is 100% relevant...
I used VLC on my mac mini and found the 1080p content would sputter away, then I found this article on how to "tune" it.

» Play 1080p Content on Mac Mini @ mr. Obsession

Anyway to make a long story short it actually improved my HD experience.

Anyway, I'm still confused relative to how to use your video card's hardware acceleration with VLC. If anyone is knowledgeable about that, I'd appreciate more discussion about that.

These should come in handy when I install my DVB World USB 2104D. Thanks for the links guys.

 

[Babadem]

Thanks. Interesting. The FFmpeg menu looks different in the PC version of VLC, and doesn't have the options mentioned, but I see several other potential settings there that I haven't messed with. Thanks.

Yep, its there. Go to Tools > Preferences > Input Codecs & Settings and scroll down. See screen print.

 

[B.J.]

Yep, its there. Go to Tools > Preferences > Input Codecs & Settings and scroll down. See screen print.

OK. I have about 5 different versions of VLC on my computer, and I accidently pulled up an older version. When I pulled up the more recent version, now I see it. I eventually found the skip check box even in that older version, but it was in a different section only found when you checked ALL instead of simple, and it didn't have the options, just the check box. Now, I'm not sure which version of VLC I've even been using recently, since it's generally pulled up automatically by TSREADER. I'll have to check to see which version it's using. I see that that skip feature says that it reduces quality, so I think I'll wait until the next time MPEG4 gives me issues then try that to see if it helps. THanks.