Glasses Free 3D

[dfergie]

 

[dfergie]

 

[dfergie]

 

[Claude Greiner]

I think this will help. Too bad 3d is dead

 

[Juan]

I think this will help. Too bad 3d is dead

Remember WEB TV? That died too...it was just too early for its time

 

[TheForce]

3D isn't dead. Far too many movies being released with double digit revenue stream for Hollywood to drop it. What has backed off in popularity is the Home Video in 3D upgrade. Most people watch their TV in a casual manner but 3D almost demands full attention to the presentation and people in general are just not ready for that yet unless their viewing takes place in a dedicated home theater room. Only real 3D enthusiasts will dedicate their attention to the screen in the home environment. In the theater it is different and the entire audience stays focused.

For example, we have a small TV in the Kitchen. It's on but my wife is always mutlitasking. It would never work as a 3D TV. People who share a TV in the living room or den, often engage in unrelated conversation, glancing through a magazine or some other activity. In a dedicated home theater, the focus is on the presentation and 3D will work here. But the number of people who have dedicated Home theaters is very small. And, those that do have these dedicated rooms have mostly made the upgrade now to 3D or will soon do that, the same as upgrade to 5.1 and 7.1 sound systems. People don't have 7.1 sound systems in their kitchen TV either, and that does not mean that 7.1 is dead.

 

[navychop]

... But I assure you, 7.1 barely has a pulse. But I don't regret the purchase.

 

[TheForce]

No pulse for middle of the road movies but the really great titles, where it counts, the ones with big budgets all have 7.1. You should hear the sound on movies from Disney 3D like Big Hero 6 and my latest one- The battle of Five Armies.

 

[jayn_j]

IMO, these folks shot themselves in the foot. The time for 3D upgrades was during the transition to HDTV, not 5 years afterward. The front projector market should have been the leading edge of this. People who build theaters are looking for 'sit down, shut up and enjoy the show' type of experience. The problem was that th push for affordable home theater products really hit in the late 2000s and the front projectors came on the market in 2012-2013. By that time, many of us had made a significant investment in 1080p. Not only were we then told to throw away our worthless projectors, but we would also need to upgrade everything else including receiver BluRay player and even the screen.

To make matters worse, the early 3d adopters got to choose from an array of 50" lcd sets. The projectors were late to the party, blunting the impact.

When I went through that upgrade, the intent was for it to last ten years. There was no way I was going to toss a $2500 projector, a $500 screen and an $800 receiver just to view 3D content.

 

[TheForce]

The low cost LCD 3D projectors hit the market about the same time as the 3D BD began hitting the shelves. Higher end 3D projectors began to surface a year later. But 1080p 2D was out in 2008 and HT projectors in 720P ware introduced around 2001. Prior to that everything was CRT.

 

[mike123abc]

I agree that 3D brings in too much for theaters to abandon it. The only real issue I see with home 3D is that 3D is not even offered for some movies that were 3D in the theater.

 

[jayn_j]

The low cost LCD 3D projectors hit the market about the same time as the 3D BD began hitting the shelves. Higher end 3D projectors began to surface a year later. But 1080p 2D was out in 2008 and HT projectors in 720P ware introduced around 2001. Prior to that everything was CRT.

I bought my 1080p projector in August 2010. Don and others here were doing the same. 3D projectors were rumors and folks were saying that a 3D projector was going to be tough and expensive. The 3D LCD sets came out the next summer and required expensive active glasses. The affordable 3D projectors did not show up until 2012-2013.

 

[TheForce]

I did my complete HT 3D conversion in February 2011. The projector I bought, the Sony VPL VW90ES was on the market in Sep 2010 but I wanted to see it first so after returning from CES, I ordered it, the new AVR with compatible HDMI and a Samsung 3D BD player. Like I said, while you were making the change to just 1080P some of us were making the change to 3D and had been in 1080P for several years. 3D has always been the red headed step child of the Home Theater hobby. Still is. But when it first was introduced, many were in denial it existed until the big splash at CES in 2010. Even I waited a year since I wanted the rumored Sony SXRD as I was sick of the DLP rainbows and didn't like the harsh colors of the LCD 8 bit color gamut. 3D Historians claim the first panel 3D TV's went on sale in 2009. In addition, I shot and edited my first 3D video, published in July 2011 using a Sony 3D Bloggie Camera and edited using Sony Vegas Pro.

You may believe 3D was just a rumor back then but for those seriously interested in 3D, it was real and on the market beginning in 2009 and for me 2010. I only held back until after CES 2011 because I wanted to see the items on my shopping list. JVC had also introduced 3 3D projectors in 2010 and I did see them here in Jacksonville, but they were too dark for my liking. Sony and JVC introduced the first serious 3D camcorders about Sept 2011 I got one of the first ones out and still use it today. It is the HDR TD-10.

 

[jayn_j]

OK Don, if you say you had it then, who am I to argue? Would ask what you paid to convert. I may have missed the word affordable.

 

[TheForce]

I may have missed the word affordable.

Possibly. Because in the beginning the early active panels from Samsung were about $5000 and the JVC Projectors were $4000, $6000, and $10,000 IIRC. The Sony was $10,000 but I didn't pay that. I believe it was $6300. I also paid about $1500 for a new AVR and $250 for the 3DBD player. I also upgraded to 7.1 at the same time so I bought two more speakers in the bundle. I don't believe 3D projectors came down in price until later on when you said you made the upgrade and they were around $3000 for the Epson and similar brands. I believe then Sony and JVC were still the only two 3D projector companies out there. I also believe Panasonic had a 3D projector in 2010 but it was over $10,000 and didn't stay on the market long. These were all single lens projectors. There were a bunch of companies that came out in 2008 with twin lens packages and silver screen using polarized glasses but everyone of these were very expensive and terrible looking picture.

For me, this was affordable, because I tried to buy wholesale through my business. One thing we all know about "affordable" in the expensive hobby of HT, is that this stuff always gets cheaper and better with the passage of time. If wanting to be on the cutting edge, it costs more so we seek other ways to reduce cost. The first projector I owned was a Kloss Novabeam in '76 and kept it until the early 90's. Then replaced it with a used Electrohome and finally upgraded to a Dwin digital when they first came out. That one listed for $10,000 too but I also bought that factory direct, wholesale. Still pricey by today's market. By comparison, it seems today's HT prices are dirt cheap, while media has jumped greatly. Affordability is all relative on many levels.

 

[jayn_j]

Possibly. Because in the beginning the early active panels from Samsung were about $5000 and the JVC Projectors were $4000, $6000, and $10,000 IIRC. The Sony was $10,000 but I didn't pay that. I believe it was $6300. I also paid about $1500 for a new AVR and $250 for the 3DBD player. I also upgraded to 7.1 at the same time so I bought two more speakers in the bundle. I don't believe 3D projectors came down in price until later on when you said you made the upgrade and they were around $3000 for the Epson and similar brands. I believe then Sony and JVC were still the only two 3D projector companies out there. I also believe Panasonic had a 3D projector in 2010 but it was over $10,000 and didn't stay on the market long. These were all single lens projectors. There were a bunch of companies that came out in 2008 with twin lens packages and silver screen using polarized glasses but everyone of these were very expensive and terrible looking picture.

For me, this was affordable, because I tried to buy wholesale through my business. One thing we all know about "affordable" in the expensive hobby of HT, is that this stuff always gets cheaper and better with the passage of time. If wanting to be on the cutting edge, it costs more so we seek other ways to reduce cost. The first projector I owned was a Kloss Novabeam in '76 and kept it until the early 90's. Then replaced it with a used Electrohome and finally upgraded to a Dwin digital when they first came out. That one listed for $10,000 too but I also bought that factory direct, wholesale. Still pricey by today's market. By comparison, it seems today's HT prices are dirt cheap, while media has jumped greatly. Affordability is all relative on many levels.

I was quite familiar with Epsons. The 8100 was the low cost one in 2010. The 8350 came out in early 2011. The first 3D projector was the 3010 and it was introduced in october 2011. Yes, there were a couple of high priced ones out a bit earlier, but we are arguing nits. My point was that there was a large push to build affordable theaters in 2009 and 2010. Many of us invested then, and are reluctant to upgrade simply because of 3D. I have a nice 2D Epson projector, a 7.1 THX receiver, BluRay, HD-DVD and Laserdisc. I am not willing to upgrade a major portion of this just for 3D.

Yeah, I had a Kloss Novabeam back in 1977. Sold it when we got transferred to California in 1981. I also had a nice Harmon Karden quad receiver back then that could decode the surround info. And I had a Laserdisc player on the first day they became available in the Denver test market. Learned a lot of early adopter lessons with that setup, but one thing I definitely learned was to research and buy the best value available. And then stop reading about the new stuff and be happy as long as possible. My receivers tend to last 20 years and my display devices about 10.

 

[TheKrell]

I had a Kloss Novabeam back in 1977.

I saw one of those in a showroom playing the Olivia Newton John music video, "Physical". I was astonished at how good 480i could look on a 10' screen. You could see every droplet of sweat on her face.

 

[TheForce]

The Novabeam used a 72" diagonal parabolic silver screen. I never knew they had a 10 ft. screen and I worked for the guy as a repair tech. There were 3 models all different projector formats, same screen. The 2 gun, and 2 three gun models. One was a triangle layout and the other was horizontal. I had the horizontal model that was later sold OEM to Advent. The outside was with Advent logos on the wooden cabinet and the internals had Henry's name everywhere. I didn't work for the company direct as an employee, I just did the installations and service work in the SE NY area but not NYC. It was a good gig I did on weekends.

I think if you saw the Novabeam on a flat 10 ft screen it was probably out of focus either in the center or around the outside. More likely all over because the Novabeams were fixed distance and fixed focus by fixed lenses and convergence. Weren't too many adjustments in that system for the lens. I suppose you could custom converge the picture beams on the chassis but the setup grid was fixed.

 

[TheForce]

Jay- which model did you own? FYI, mine began to fail in a big way in the early 90's. The deflection yoke's insulation began to fail and I actually rewound two of them to breathe new life, then after going through all that trouble, I met a local TV repair tech here who had a bunch of them in his garage. I gathered up freebees from his junk and kept my old CRT alive for another 7 years. Finally my wife said Please buy a new one! She would see all those new Sony's and Electrohome projectors at CES and wish I would just ditch the old Novabeam. (Later known as the Videobeam from Advent.) So when we had our roof replaced on the house, they had a big dumpster outside and I hauled the whole thing and tossed it in the big dumpster screen and all. Then bought the electrohome from that local repair guy, used of course.

Since goijng digital projectors I have made several upgrades. I moved to a Dwin and that thing was about to break the bank with new bulbs. I switched to a BenQ when I went to 1080P. That one wasn't cheap either but the powersupply went up in smoke about 3 months out of warranty and they didn't want to know me. So I ought a cheap Panasonic 1080P LCD and it was so bad on color, very harsh but I suffered with it for about 6 months until I could get the Sony 3D PJ. The bulbs are plentiful and last me about 2500 hours and only cost about $100 ( not from Sony of course). I use the thing hard, about 8 hours a day. But I turn it on just once each day, usually about 6PM to 2AM. I would like to have a 4K 3D Sony but want to see that track record first. I've seen it and it is really a beautiful picture. Like you, I would prefer to get 10 years from the Sony I now have before moving to 4K. There still is much to refine in that end of the market yet, not to mention available media and HDMI specs. I like the server idea Sony and now others have as that eliminates the high cost of optical per title.

Anyway, were way off topic for glasses free but frankly, with exception of the glasses free screens on my cameras, I don't see that as ready for prime time yet. I prefer passive for long hours of 3D editing and active on the big screen in the HT.

 

[TheKrell]

From here:http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/19...ideo-signal-video-input-projection-television

KLOSS: projection television/model Novabeam 100.

From the company that pioneered projection television comes this front- projector model, available in screen sizes of 5, 6 1/2 and 10 feet (diagonally measured).

The scanned magazine article I found here http://www.walvisions.com/ArchivePages/walvisions__kloss_novabeam_1_1A_2_reviews.htm even mentions flat screens. (The Video Review article.)