I told you so... HD-DVD vs bluray

[skottey]

For all you bluray fanboys that wished HD-DVD to death-

I was never a fanboy of either format. I own both and enjoy both very much so. I own two HD-DVD players (stand alone and Xbox360 add on) as well as about 50 movies. I own a PS3 and a handful of bluray movies.

My complaint was my biggest fear and it is coming true. Now that bluray has won and HD-DVD is off the shelves, just go into a Best Buy or any electronics store for that matter and walk down the bluray aisle. For the first time yesterday since they got rid of all in store HD-DVD, I walked down the "Next Generation DVD" aisle at Best Buy and there was not one item on sale. In the past, with two formats competing, each side of the aisle would have some movies on sale of each format. The outrageously priced items of $24.95-$34.95+ per movie would always have select movies on sale for $15-$20 or a buy one get one free deal. Now that there is only one format, there are no such sales.

This is just great for the consumer *sarcasm*. Just what I suspected. For those of you hoping for the bluray players to see a price drop, I think you'll be waiting a loooooooooooong time for anything significant.

Competition is GOOD for the consumer. The dancing in the streets mentality of the bluray fanboys that wished HD-DVD to death is stupid. You got what you wanted. Now go look for yourself and see what is on sale. Then ask yourself, "what did we do?"

You killed off a consumer's marketplace. That is what you did. The ball is going to remain in Sony's court for a very long time.

 

[jayn_j]

For all you bluray fanboys that wished HD-DVD to death- <rant deleted>

I honestly feel your pain, and think BR is solidly heading for Laserdisc acceptance levels. Not necessarily a bad thing, but no DVD killer either, given how it is being marketed.

I am curious why this wasn't posted to the war zone, though?

 

[skottey]

I am curious why this wasn't posted to the war zone, though?

Sorry... I typically do not go right into the forum to find a topic. I usually do search. So when I decided to start this new topic, I went to the forum main page and did a firefox find for HD DVD, clicked on the link and started a new topic. Sorry if it is in the wrong place.

Let the powers that be move it if they see fit.

 

[mike123abc]

Adjusting for inflation. BD is about the same price as DVDs. The price of DVDs just has not gone up with inflation.

 

[r.jones1116]

Adjusting for inflation. BD is about the same price as DVDs. The price of DVDs just has not gone up with inflation.

Typical BD fanboy spin. Hardware/ software is to high for mass adoption. If this remains the case, BD will be the second fatality in the format war.

 

[skottey]

Adjusting for inflation. BD is about the same price as DVDs. The price of DVDs just has not gone up with inflation.

Although I mentioned the high price of bluray media, that isn't specifically the point to my post. The point is, competition is good. Without competition, there is no need to put something on sale. Before HD-DVD fell, Best Buy had sales left and right on either side of the aisle, with each format trying to persuade buyers to buy their format. Now that there is only bluray media out there, the weekly sale prices have dried up.

I am really surprised that most people picked a side and hoped against hope that their format would "win." The only winner here is Sony, who gets a cut on every sale of bluray players and media through licensing. The losers are the consumers, yet there were the bluray fanboys hoping that HD-DVD would die. I was in the minority wishing with all my might that both formats would survive.

If we still had Bluray and HD-DVD the other day, I would have walked down that aisle and seen no less than ten movies on sale of each format. Instead, I walked down an aisle with no little cardboard signs screaming "Transporter 2 on bluray... $16.99." Instead, EVERYTHING was regular price.

How anybody can't see that two formats was actually good for consumers is beyond my comprehension. To think that way is to buy into what you are told by the companies and the media. We were told that this war had to end for consumers sake so most of the flock (consumers) bought into the hype and picked a side. We were told to pick a side so we did. How does the consumer benefit from this? I would much rather buy two different players (I actually have three between the two formats) and pay less in the long run for media than to buy one player of one format and pay more in the long run for media. This is so typical of our society. It reminds me of the day after Thanksgiving sales. We are told it is the busiest shopping day of the year, so we go out and shop. The busiest shopping day of the year was dictated for us. It isn't as if we picked that day to shop and it became the busiest shopping day. The retailers picked it for us. We are told to shop on that day, so we shop on that day. We were told to pick a format, so we picked a format.

Consumers lose with a sole HD format.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Adjusting for inflation. BD is about the same price as DVDs. The price of DVDs just has not gone up with inflation.

What a load of crap.


Moving thread to the war-zone.

 

[JoeSp]

Consumers will win eventually with one format. I know that there are those of you who want to whine because HD-DVD is off the shelf but Toshiba after loosing over $900 million on HD-DVD was not going to survive the next stock holders meeting especially with Warner jumping ship. HD-DVD was dead the day Toshiba tried to breath life in it.

I am going to make a very bold prediction based on some information that has been rattling about for the last month. Prices on BD players will be down under $300 for 1.1 compliant players by XMAS. I am talking about standalone players. The price for 2.0 players will be under $400. Now for those on the very cheap you might find this outrageous -- but DVD players did not fall under the $200 price untill they were in the FOURTH YEAR on the market!

(Oh yeah, don't be bringing any prices of Denon or Pioneer or someother highbrow players in here for price comparison. They are always at the top of the food chain as far as price is concerned -- and usually not worth it. A good Panney or Toshiba (when they bring out their BD player in May/June) will do just fine for price comparisons.)

The real news here (and yes I expect to feel the crunch on my neck) is that prices of BD movies will be coming down before XMAS. I expect to see new release DVD prices drop to under $15 and prices on new release BD prices under $25. Which BTW was what DVD was selling for in 2004. XMAS '08 is going to be very nice to those who can wait.

 

[diogen]

Neither side has/had your interests in mind. Whether you like it or not - it doesn't matter, live with that.
Nobody (almost) was making money while the war lasted and this seems to be still the case.
Neither side was expecting the war to last this long - the main players are in much deeper hole financially than they planned to be.
Those losses have to be recovered. You can't do that by pricing players and movies at DVD levels.

Competition is effective to force players be satisfied with 5% profit margin instead of 50%. If the margin is -10%, competition can't help.

Diogen.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Consumers will win eventually with one format. I know that there are those of you who want to whine because HD-DVD is off the shelf but Toshiba after loosing over $900 million on HD-DVD was not going to survive the next stock holders meeting especially with Warner jumping ship. HD-DVD was dead the day Toshiba tried to breath life in it.

I am going to make a very bold prediction based on some information that has been rattling about for the last month. Prices on BD players will be down under $300 for 1.1 compliant players by XMAS. I am talking about standalone players. The price for 2.0 players will be under $400. Now for those on the very cheap you might find this outrageous -- but DVD players did not fall under the $200 price untill they were in the FOURTH YEAR on the market!

(Oh yeah, don't be bringing any prices of Denon or Pioneer or someother highbrow players in here for price comparison. They are always at the top of the food chain as far as price is concerned -- and usually not worth it. A good Panney or Toshiba (when they bring out their BD player in May/June) will do just fine for price comparisons.)

The real news here (and yes I expect to feel the crunch on my neck) is that prices of BD movies will be coming down before XMAS. I expect to see new release DVD prices drop to under $15 and prices on new release BD prices under $25. Which BTW was what DVD was selling for in 2004. XMAS '08 is going to be very nice to those who can wait.

Here's what I think: if Toshiba could sell HD players for under $200, I refuse to believe that SONY can't do the same with BD. It just doesn't want to. When DVD players came out they were brand-new technology. Can we really say the same with BD or HD DVD? Sure, new codecs, larger capacities, different lasers. But from the economic standpoint, I think that there is no reason for the prices to remain so high.

 

[teamerickson]

But from the economic standpoint, I think that there is no reason for the prices to remain so high.

Sure there is, profit. It's probably the most important factor for economics.

 

[diogen]

But from the economic standpoint, I think that there is no reason for the prices to remain so high.

Everybody is greedy, the bigger the company the more so.
The studios were promised by Sony a new Klondike where they'll be printing money on old stock.

HD DVD screwed their plans. BD would be at least twice as much as they are now if it wouldn't be for Toshiba.
And I believe their "Out of Business" sign was paid for by Sony, too.

Now the BD gang has to choose between establishing a premium product (with premium pricing) and risk becoming
a niche product or target DVD as their next battle and risk not making money for a while longer.
They seem to have choosen the first...

Diogen.

 

[akodoreign]

I tell you what Inflation is crazy right now.

Went to aldis groceries store yesterday, Bags of flour marked $.89 rang up at $1.69.

Almost everything food related was just through the roof almost double what I Paid 4 months ago.

My purchasing power has literally been cut in half.

I will not be getting any electronics any time soon, I just Hope that the BD group realizes that we are getting ready for a round of Stagflation.

I highly doubt they are going to be able to market to the average Joe any time soon is my point.

 

[dtanderson]

Consumers will win eventually with one format.

And that format will be ......

Standard DVD I don't think Blu-ray will make the cut, it will become the next laserdisc.

 

[skottey]

I know that there are those of you who want to whine because HD-DVD is off the shelf

My complaint is one format, not the specific format. I would have done the same type of post if Toshiba's HD-DVD format won and things were reversed.

Although I think HD-DVD was a better format, I am hardly a fanboy. I own both and was happy that both formats co-existed. I wish they still did.

As far as your Christmas predictions. I will believe it when I see it. Prices would be cheaper with competition.

 

[skottey]

Here's what I think: if Toshiba could sell HD players for under $200, I refuse to believe that SONY can't do the same with BD. It just doesn't want to. When DVD players came out they were brand-new technology. Can we really say the same with BD or HD DVD? Sure, new codecs, larger capacities, different lasers. But from the economic standpoint, I think that there is no reason for the prices to remain so high.

What irks me about Sony is that aside from my whole competition argument, I honestly believe they have kept the price of players artificially high, leaving the PS3 as the cheapest player intentionally. Many people bought a PS3 for bluray playback with no intention of really playing their games. I bought a PS3 as a bluray player, and guess what, now I am buying a few games here and there. Nowhere near the level of game buying I do for Xbox360, but I have been buying PS3 exclusives like Uncharted. If it wasn't for bluray and the fact that my cheapest buying option of a player was PS3, I would never have otherwise bought a PS3. Sony is the winner in all this. But I still don't think they are going to catch up to wii or Xbox360 in the number of units in US homes. They have however sold more units than they otherwise would have if it wasn't for the fact that they are the cheapest bluray player. They are going to ride that gravy train as long as they can.

You are darn right that they could sell those players sub-$200. They should but won't for a while. But I am more concerned with the media cost. It will take far longer to drop. I guess renters don't care about media cost, but I am a collector. I like to own my media.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Sure there is, profit. It's probably the most important factor for economics.

Well, of course. BUT that does not mean they could not make it more reasonably priced, and thus sell more players, and more movies, and thus, more profit.

 

[skottey]

I tell you what Inflation is crazy right now.

Went to aldis groceries store yesterday, Bags of flour marked $.89 rang up at $1.69.

You are right about inflation. The fresh bread I used to buy at my local grocery chain (Publix) was $1.79 not that long ago. It crept into the low $2 range over a few months and suddenly, *JOLT* I bought a loaf for $3.39 yesterday. The same bread I was buying less than a year ago for $1.79.

My local fruit stand used to have awesome fresh bread, delivered daily fresh from a bakery. When I asked the mom and pop fruit stand shop owner about not selling bread anymore, I was told the lady packed up and moved BACK to Europe.

So sure, we are experiencing fast inflation in this country, but something tells me that isn't why the prices of bluray players and media are what they are.

 

[Zookster]

My complaint is one format, not the specific format. I would have done the same type of post if Toshiba's HD-DVD format won and things were reversed.

Although I think HD-DVD was a better format, I am hardly a fanboy. I own both and was happy that both formats co-existed. I wish they still did.

As far as your Christmas predictions. I will believe it when I see it. Prices would be cheaper with competition.

Every consumer product goes through cycles of selling close to full MSRP and then dropping to rock bottom sale prices. Companies are always looking for that balanced price-point: optimum sales at highest price the larger mass of consumers will bear.

So there aren't any big sales at Best Buy on BD discs right now. So what?! Don't buy one. Rent, wait a few weeks, or go online. J&R.com just had a great sale on BD discs a week or so ago. This isn't a big time for CE sales anyway. The new flat panels are being released close to MSRP, the old ones are on clearance, and so the cycle goes.

 

[Zookster]

You are right about inflation. The fresh bread I used to buy at my local grocery chain (Publix) was $1.79 not that long ago. It crept into the low $2 range over a few months and suddenly, *JOLT* I bought a loaf for $3.39 yesterday. The same bread I was buying less than a year ago for $1.79.

My local fruit stand used to have awesome fresh bread, delivered daily fresh from a bakery. When I asked the mom and pop fruit stand shop owner about not selling bread anymore, I was told the lady packed up and moved BACK to Europe.

So sure, we are experiencing fast inflation in this country, but something tells me that isn't why the prices of bluray players and media are what they are.

At this rate of inflation, BD discs should be selling for $50, players for $650. They aren't; be happy. If you want to get upset at anyone, start with the oil companies who are making record profits and still getting massive tax breaks from a government that is ensuring their future supplies of oil in the Middle East by spending trillions of tax dollars on an ill-advised war strategy (or lack thereof).