installer wouldn't install

[jeremys]

well, my LOS fears have been realized.

When the installer shows up on the street, I was talking to him about voom. He says he is tired of LOS/OTA issues and now he just refuses to install if things aren't perfect. I asked him about the equip troubles and he says he is about to stop intsalling voom alltogether.

So, he goes up to my balcony with a compass. He says there is no way he can do it. I asked about the direction and how *I* have LOS, but he says even if he mounted it on a tripod, it is still too cramped. Then he says, "besides, you can't get any OTA the closest ones are through the building". I said that most of the OTAs have the same direction as the dish. He says yeah, but they are too far away (I think its 20-30 miles).

Anyways, I don't know what he would have done if I had begged and pleaded. I asked hims several times nicely (are you sure you can't get it). So, what's the deal with this? I mean, he wasted a trip and doesn't get paid (or does he?). The guy seemed like he had no interest unless it was on top of a roof in the middle of a huge field.

oh well.. at least timewarnersandiego has INHDs and HDNETs.

 

[vurbano]

Bullsh!t about the distance I am 20 miles from towers and that is close. 20-30 is the perfect distance for a good OTA directional antenna. The rated "fringe" distance on my medium directional antenna is 50 miles. And it is not even a large directional. I have mine in the attic, one story house with 2 story houses around me. I think hes full of it.

 

[Sean Mota]

I agree with Vurbano. You should call Voom and get someone else.

 

[jeremys]

why would he NOT want to install? I mean, is it just a hassle for him and if it doesn't work he doesnt get paid?

 

[vurbano]

he probably doesnt want to run cables, fool with an antenna etc. He can make a quicker buck throwing up a d* dish.

 

[Tvlman]

Sounds like you got a real dud of a guy with an attitude. Call back and ask for another installer. I am 40.9 miles from the broadcast tower and my OTA comes in great.
Sounds like he gets paid regardless and just doesn't want to go to the trouble. It's too bad that a few lazy installers are doing this to potential VOOM customers.

 

[LOBO2999]

I am 40 miles away I get all my locals and My wifes brother is over 60 miles away and he got an upgrade for OTA and now he gets them all, He just didn't want to do it plane and simple

 

[poopsie]

I just installed one at 58 miles away, tree's all over. I told the customer that I would bet money that they wouldn't get many, if any locals. That was fine with them, did the install, and got ALL of the locals. Learn something new everyday I guess

 

[PSB]

Most installers do not get paid if a job is not activated these days! The two main fulfillment companies no longer pay trip charges! I am sure the installer was wanting to get the system installed as much as you, but I agree get another installer out to double check before giving up, if both say no the only other thing you can do is contact a fully independent installer. Good Luck! Most apartment installations cant be ground to local and NEC codes, if the installer does do the job and it is checked the installers fee will be taken away from them (at the very least)! Its just not worth it for TV sometimes, if its not ground to code you are risking the life of everyone in the building, I know nobody wants to hear this but thats the law, I don't make them I just follow them to the letter!

 

[randym431]

This is why voom MUST start letting us install it ourselves!!!! I wonder how many "could" have got voom, but dont because of picky installers.

 

[PSB]

I do not mind picky installers, better letting you down before you are trapped into any contract or get used to the system and it only works a few months, installers are supposed to have a 10 degree clearance on all sides of the satellite LOS, or they are not to install. The real problem is when the installer knows the system will only work until spring time or the next season, I have done it my self in the past, I felt sorry, or was pressurized to installing when I knew I should not have......they always come back to haunt you! Your picky installer may be following the letter of the law, the bottom line is everything that ever happens to your system is the installers fault : ) And they are legally responsible if they do not ground and the apartment burns to the ground, you can bet the installer will get the blame!

 

[sat4me]

Are we all DOOMED?

Most apartment installations cant be ground to local and NEC codes, if the installer does do the job and it is checked the installers fee will be taken away from them (at the very least)! Its just not worth it for TV sometimes, if its not ground to code you are risking the life of everyone in the building, I know nobody wants to hear this but thats the law, I don't make them I just follow them to the letter!

I've been seeing many of your post about grounding, and although I agree that the dish and cables should be grounded, you seem to follow the "book" to the letter, which I applaud you for. The scary thing though, you seem to stress that people will die and buildings will burn to the ground if not grounded.

Perhaps I'm extremely naive and don't follow the news as closely as you may, but can you point me to any case in where this has happened to any dish or antenna system, where homes have burned to the ground and people have died? I've actually searched for this and couldn't find anything on this. I really would like to know that a #10 gauge ground wire will really protect my family from certain death according to your knowledge of grounding.
I live in Colorado most of the time and I can tell you of the severe thunderstorms and thousands of lightining strikes we have here almost everyday during the spring and summer, and not once have I heard of, or read any link to an ungrounded or for that matter grounded OTA or dish as the culprit to burning down homes/apartments or people being injured or killed.

Will a real surge protector for satellite systems plugged into a grounded outlet at least not protect the person, dwelling, equipment from apparent certain doom? Help us better understand the in's and out's of what we really can do to protect ourselves if we want our VOOM, DTV, dishN OTA's but cannot ground to code as in the letter of the law.

 

[PSB]

Believe me there is no one more upset than me that I cant do easy apartment installs in a bucket or tripod, only today I had to reject a job because of no grounding point in an apartment, its no fun, and I know the installer "down the road" will do it in a minute but at least I can sleep at night. A spark caused by static electricity is just as lethal as any other spark, if a system is not grounded to code there is this potential, thats why they have the NEC codes, just a month or so ago I was at an apartment and I seen that a satellite system was grounded to the gas main! Thats just asking for an accident. As for has it ever happened, I am sure there was a case in Las Vegas at one time and a whole hotel burned to the ground, and thats why they now have this law, it may have been an antenna or cable system but the potential for disaster is there thats why they have these codes! Thats why I stick to them, I have to, as for a self install, of course you should be able to do it your self, then you are taking the risk for the install and system, nothing would stop me from having satellite, hopefully the codes will change if not this time around next time and systems will not need to be grounded, all plastic and three pin electricity plug.

http://www.nmhc.org/Content/ServeContent.cfm?IssueID=161&ContentItemID=1322

 

[randym431]

Thats another point. If you are allowed to install yourself, then you CAN tweak the dish (if needed) when Spring comes and trees bloom. If you can install a dish, you can prune a tree limb. Self installs let you take control. Maybe you'll need to move a dish from time to time. Maybe you'll have to clear trees/branches from time to time. In the end, you'll have the PQ you desire. For those who dont want to self install, then dont. Sure, an installer wont want to come out in 6 months to redo the dish, and I dont blame them. But I wont mind if I have to myself, for myself.

 

[jeremys]

im on a balcony and would be using a tripod.
How difficult can this be?

 

[rkr0923]

My install is set for 07-07-04. It's simple, if I don't like it, I'll redo it all myself and then I'll know it's right. I would urge all you complainers to do this. No need to be Rocket Scientist or a Harvard Grad to do this. A little common since goes along way.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Test 1,2,3,4,5

 

[wasch_24]

Test 1,2,3,4,5

Huh?

 

[bryan27]

Perhaps I'm extremely naive and don't follow the news as closely as you may, but can you point me to any case in where this has happened to any dish or antenna system, where homes have burned to the ground and people have died? I've actually searched for this and couldn't find anything on this. I really would like to know that a #10 gauge ground wire will really protect my family from certain death according to your knowledge of grounding.

That is so funny :haha

I tend to think grounding is over rated. I've never grounded an OTA antenna and never will. Think about all those ungrounded OTA antennas people have installed over the years. Where are the hundred of thousands of homes burned to the ground from not grounding antennas?

I'm more concerned with high winds blowing one of these 100' pines over on my house than getting a lightining strike. Believe me if lightning strikes my chief concern isn't going to be if the dish survives, and that little wire isn't going to survive a strike. The worst I have ever seen of not grounding an antenna is blown lightbulbs and the TV tube not working again.

 

[sat4me]

>>just a month or so ago I was at an apartment and I seen that a satellite system was grounded to the gas main! Thats just asking for an accident. As for has it ever happened, I am sure there was a case in Las Vegas at one time and a whole hotel burned to the ground, and thats why they now have this law, it may have been an antenna or cable system but the potential for disaster is there thats why they have these codes! QUOTE]

PSB,
Certainly I don't disagree with your ascertion that a ground done wrong is really an accident waiting to happen.. Grounding to a gas main That's the worse thing possible and in agreement, that system is better off not being grounded at all than to bond to the gas.. You're correct that there are far too many "installers" from all different industries that do stupid things that can cause damage or create a dangerous condition. Those are the bad apples and I fully agree with you they should not be allowed to install.

As to your Las Vegas link.. The only hotel burning to the ground in recent history due to any kind of electrical connection was the MGM Grand, and that was not in any way linked to any antenna or cable system or faulty ground problem with any communication equipment.

I understand your sticking to the code, that was written originally back in the 50's and updated in the 70's. There is a movement to modify the code and possible do away with it as it concerns small receiving antenna systems.

There have been no known actual property or human injury due to a dish antenna not being grounded, that I can find. I've heard of the "stories", but cannot find through any public record any actual case findings from any authority.
Incorrectly grounded dishes I personally have seen damage done by way of the house ground was out of phase and the dish bonding caused a ground loop which caused the entire circuit to be hot which fried equipment, but no injury or fire was caused.
My point is, you're correct to follow the code as to correctly grounding and bonding for the dish and cable, that's the intent of the code, to apply the correct way to do it. The code doesn't say an installer is not suppose to install if there is no ground. The installation certification rule is to provide ground to meet code. If you cannot provide ground, you as the installer can make that determination not to install, however, the guy down the road may have a suitable solution to offer as a satellite surge protector with proper 3-wire outlet will provide full protection of the cable and provides all-path protection.
Perhaps you should be promoting the importance of protecting all paths, not just the cable and dish.

This is just opinion as a solution to those that have no ground, such as in apartments and condos and in some cases homes where the grounding is not possible to meet the code.