Is "real" MPEG4 in use now?

[voripteth]

I remember when the Mpeg4 channels were first being rolled out they were Mpeg2 streams with a Mpeg4 header. Is Dish using actual Mpeg4 compression yet?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The only two national channels in MPEG4 are Starz HD and NFL HD from 61.5 and 148 (the NFL HD on 110 is in MPEG2) the rest of the MPEG4 channels are actually MPEG2 but can only be seen by the VIP MPEG4 receivers. (Dish Network calls these channels "PRE MPEG4")

The Pre MPEG4 channels will be full blown MPEG4 channels in the future, I am hearing that the next generation encoders are finally showing them some bandwitdh savings while keeping a good picture.

What I want to see is bandwidth savings with a VERY GOOD full resolution 1920 x1080 picture.

 

[mdonnelly]

NFL-HD looked pretty good to me for the Giants/Ravens game in HD. Does anybody know the resolution and bitrate?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

What channel were you watching on? If it was in the 9000's it was MPEG4 it was was in the 290's you were watching the MPEG2 feed.

 

[Neutron]

What I want to see is bandwidth savings with a VERY GOOD full resolution 1920 x1080 picture.

Same here!!

 

[navychop]

Aren't the HD locals in real MPEG-4?

 

[riffjim4069]

Yes, there are some "real" MPEG-4 channels (HD LIL and StarzHD for example) and yes, they all look "real" bad! (pixilation, macroblocking, lip synch, etc.) To all E* Engineers who care about quality: please, please, please fix the problem already.:

Brilliant Idea: Stop jamming four MPEG-4 HD LIL channels on a transponder - the Codecs can't handle it.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yes MOST of the HD locals are in MPEG4, however those are not considered national HD channels since they are not available to all.

 

[cebbigh]

The only two national channels in MPEG4 are Starz HD and NFL HD from 61.5 and 148 (the NFL HD on 110 is in MPEG2) the rest of the MPEG4 channels are actually MPEG2 but can only be seen by the VIP MPEG4 receivers. (Dish Network calls these channels "PRE MPEG4")

The Pre MPEG4 channels will be full blown MPEG4 channels in the future, I am hearing that the next generation encoders are finally showing them some bandwitdh savings while keeping a good picture.

What I want to see is bandwidth savings with a VERY GOOD full resolution 1920 x1080 picture.

Do they need to go full bore MPEG4 to get to the approx 50 HD channels rumored for the end of the year? A lot is riding on that next generation of encoders.

 

[shanewalker]

Mpeg-4/H.264/AVC has a LOT riding on it, and the new gen of encoders as well...it's also a part of the current HD on disc struggles/format war thats heating up (the competing next-gen codec is VC-1, i.e. Windows Media 9).

 

[ralfyguy]

So STARZ HD from 129 is not Mpeg4?

 

[BFG]

no it is.

But it might as well not be.

There's only that and nfl hd on that tp. They might as well put it in mpeg2, it would make no difference

 

[Kirby Baker]

I am hearing that the next generation encoders are finally showing them some bandwitdh savings while keeping a good picture.

Scott any more word on these new encoders? Any ETA as to when they might put some on live? Or what channels might get them first (I suspect Starz and NFL)?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

that would be my guess.

I do know the plan is for the HD locals to get the hand me downs from the national MPEG4 HD channels.

What a lot of folks dont understand is that none of what they are doing is "off the shelf" equipment, its being made for them and is truely leading edge.

Personally I would have like to see them start rolling out MPEG4 boxes for everyone however held off on MPEG4 programming until the technology was much better.

Starz HD and NFL HD dont look bad but they dont look as good as they could, and also there is no bandwidth savings yet so whats the point anyways.

 

[Kirby Baker]

Its too bad they cant swap out the SD receivers for MPEG4 versions. If they could convert those 200+ SD channels into MPEG4, I bet there wouldnt be a need for HD to be in MPEG4 until they get up to the 50-60 HD channel count. And I am betting that real time encoding of SD into MPEG4 is simple compared to HD! Ok, let me go wake up now...

Actually its a lot more than 200 channels, but on some very early MPEG4 encoded video that Dish sent out, they got about 30% savings in bitrate. If they could do that across the main CONus SD channels (300? more?), that alone would make room for about 10 HD channels at 19mbit. Couple that with a conversion of everything to 8PSK, and converting all those LiL to MPEG4, there would be lots of room! But thats also a lot of encoders

 

[kb7oeb]

Any update on when they might kill off the mpeg2 hd boxes?

 

[Smith P.]

Soon.

Kirby, take in account - switching to 8PSK will drain more energy, not sure if solar arrays and battery capacity allow to do that on all satellites.

 

[navychop]

Last rumor I heard on moving all HD to MPEG-4 was next spring. I suspect with the other troubles E* is facing, that may be put off.

8PSK & MPEG-4 would take more satellite power? Serious? The sats are just "bent tubes" aren't they?

 

[Cyclone]

I think that 8PSK lowers the tollerance for errors, so in order to use it (and make gains on bandwidth) they need to up the power to lower the errors.

 

[Dog6869]

So if I understand all this correctly, it would be better to wait, for the NEWER and better Dish Mpeg 4 Boxes (DVR??) .. Also I live just out side New Orleans, so it may be a while before I would be available for the new Mpeg4 if it did come out… Seems like we are always the last on the list to get anything new…