Need help re-starting a DSR 922 for use w/FTA receiver

[Chris_R]

Hello all,

I have a working DSR 922 along with an 8 ft C-band dish that's been parked on the Music Choice channels on G5 (using a generic tile) for the past 5 years. Those music channels vanished about a week ago, so of course was giving thought to getting rid of the dish entirely.

Then I remembered MPEG-2 / MPEG-4 FTA, and I just recently learned that a friend of mine is involved in starting up a new channel in May that will indeed be FTA. I would like to be able to pick up this channel, plus any other free stuff that might be out there...but has to be a "user friendly" method - I'm not a rocket scientist and have no clue (or have forgotten) how to adjust polarity etc. for any channel I might wish to check out.

Was doing some research here and discovered a unit called Manhattan, which appears to get the FTA channels and includes a DVR of sorts - is it fairly easy to use, and is it compatible with the latest broadcast formats? I am new to the terms "DVB-S" etc.

What's the first step I need to do here to get a 922 back in action: obviously the maps are outdated, but does that matter if I'm not planning to use the 922 for programming? Do I need to download a new set of maps before I can hook up an FTA receiver?

Also is there a link someone can point me to on this forum with instructions on how to connect and set up an FTA receiver?

I had one over 10 years ago, seemed to be fairly easy to use but tricky to make sure the cabling was all correct - some special type of splitter for the feed coming off the dish.

Appreciate the help - thanks a ton & glad to see other C-band users still around here!

 

[FaT Air]

AFAIK- The 1933 is out of production. But a new model is 'in the pipe'. But it's a pretty good receiver from all I've read about it.
Your satellites programmed in the 922 can be used for a mover. (positions don't change, just the satellite that occupys the location change)
I'd also change out the feed/LNB's with a LNBF so that the FTA box can select polarity.(easier operation)
Wouldn't need a splitter if the 922 only does the moving.
Another receiver to consider is the Amiko HD SE. (I like mine)
How to hook up? Single run of quality RG-6 to the LNBF. (actuator wired to the 922)
If you'd also like to get some free DCII, an A-B switch(??) (Turn off the FTA box before switching)
BTW: C band ROCKS!

 

[bpalone]

Fat Air gave good advice.

Assuming your actuator still moves the dish, you can do this for less than $200 and that would include new coax. You can get the Amiko HD SE for about $100 and a new PLL LNB will be around $40.

titaniumsatellite.com

gotcband.com

are a couple of members here that sell equipment and they will treat right. There are more, but those are the ones from the top of my head.

I use my C band about 99.9% of the time. There is quite a bit of stuff available there.

 

[FTA4PA]

Check out this link for an idea of what's available on C (an Ku) band: http://www.global-cm.net/mpeg2central.html

 

[Chris_R]

Fat Air gave good advice.

Assuming your actuator still moves the dish, you can do this for less than $200 and that would include new coax. You can get the Amiko HD SE for about $100 and a new PLL LNB will be around $40.

titaniumsatellite.com

gotcband.com

are a couple of members here that sell equipment and they will treat right. There are more, but those are the ones from the top of my head.

I use my C band about 99.9% of the time. There is quite a bit of stuff available there.

Thanks Fat Air & bpalone - sounds like an easy investment to upgrade Question, I was not expecting to replace the feedhorn, there are different "PLL LNB" types out there - which one would I need? Do they have one that does Ku as well or is most of the programming on C-band? Current LNB has both.

Also, need some tips on this 922: as there are no channels (that I am aware of) to check to see if the dish will still stop at the proper sat positions, how do I know the dish is aligned properly? Afraid to move it for fear of going completely "off the grid" and pointing somewhere in space. Parked on G5 now.

And is there a new map of the satellite arc floating around? Have no idea what satellites match up with the old sat tiles...

 

[FaT Air]

DVB-S is 'first generation' While most today is going 2nd generation (S2)
I'd say 99% of 24/7 FTA is on C band. Ku is more ittinerant feeds - especially news.
Think you'd be much happier with an LNBF instead of also using the 922 to select polarity.
It's a hassle I 'deleted' a few yrs ago, and would never go back to a polorotor.(run by another 'box')
Could keep using it but to enable the FTA box to select polarity, the only 'game in town' is the TitaniumSatellite ASC1.

Dual band LNBF's, AFAIK, are out of production. To many variables to make 'em work good for everyone. Titanium made a post of this in another thread recently. Some have 'had that luck, while others were disappointed. (One or the other band worked, but not both)
I'm personally in favor of dedicating the BUD to C band. With seperate Ku dishes. I mounted a 30 inch to the BUD to 'motorize' it. (and a few fixed on select satellites)
Many here have both a motorized Ku along with a C band only BUD. (can be 'run' by one receiver)
Satellites, Positions & Strong Transponders (stickey) Or list with the channels avail at http://www.global-cm.net/mpeg2central.html See for yourself what's Ku and what's C.

 

[Chris_R]

Agreed...don't need the Ku, thanks for the link and plenty to watch on C-band.

So to confirm with you guys, I can keep the 922 basically as a "dish positioner" only, change out the LNB for a PLL LNBF and this would eliminate the need to make polarity adjustments in the 922? It can all be done from whatever FTA receiver I get.

I guess the 922 would need to be programmed for a new type of LNB setup, or no?

 

[FaT Air]

Nope, no reprogramming of the 922 for just 'mover' duties, That is unless you also use the AB switch to get some ITC DCII. Then the programming would change to LNBF and (IIRR ) Rotate 90.
As far as new maps, check this stickey (on the top of the C band section) A note on Map Master
(Don't have a DCII receiver myself)

 

[bpalone]

"So to confirm with you guys, I can keep the 922 basically as a "dish positioner" only, change out the LNB for a PLL LNBF and this would eliminate the need to make polarity adjustments in the 922? It can all be done from whatever FTA receiver I get. "

Yes, 922 as dish positioner.

New receiver would handle the polarity in the new PLL LNBF.

I use Titanium's PLL LNBF and would recommend it.

In some ways it is more simple than it used to be, but in others it is more effort intensive. Nothing hard, just doing things a bit differently than we used to do it. With the digital age, there are many times several different channels on the same transponder. The receiver will take care of identifying that for you by you running a scan with the receiver. I came back into this about a year ago and picked it all back up fairly quickly. Still have a lot of things to learn, but nothing that needs to be learned right away.

 

[waylew]

Also, need some tips on this 922: as there are no channels (that I am aware of) to check to see if the dish will still stop at the proper sat positions, how do I know the dish is aligned properly? Afraid to move it for fear of going completely "off the grid" and pointing somewhere in space. Parked on G5 now.

You can try C3 ch 7,cspan is still there in glorious analog,the only one left.

Also,if you have 2 coax runs coming in from the dish,you could get the dual output lnbf and both the 922 and whatever other receiver will work.No splitters or switches needed.

 

[DRCars]

Changing to an LNBF from the polarotor adjusted LNB is not necessarily the best solution. It depends on what all you intend to watch. If you intend to watch any backhauls, the 8 ft. dish is undersized for many now that most are DVB-S2 with high FECs. Such is my case. Doesn't happen often for me but some times the only way to get a solid lock is to adjust the polarity on the LNB with the polarotor to tune away from adjacent satellite interference. Sometimes 8 ft. is just plain too small even with a polarotor/LNB system which should outperform an LNBF, all else being equal.

On the other hand, sounds like you want to mainly watch full-time FTA channels (not backhauls) and in that case an LNBF may function just fine. They are more convenient.

Just my 2 cents worth.

DRCars

 

[Christopher Cromwell]

Fat Air and bpalone gave some spot on awesome answers and solutions for your setup. That's definitely the way to go for less hassle and money. The new Manhattan 1997 will be available in April, but if you miss your chance there, a bunch more will arrive in May. I have had excellent results with the Titanium PLL LNBF for my 1.2M C-Band setup on a few select satellites, I know you will be very pleased with it. I just purchased a new dual output Titanium C-Band LNBF for viewing on two different recievers, it takes care of all the switching for you. Not sure how old your cable is, but maybe consider replacing the cable with new while your replacing other things at the same time?

 

[FaT Air]

Also,if you have 2 coax runs coming in from the dish,you could get the dual output lnbf and both the 922 and whatever other receiver will work.No splitters or switches needed.

I like this. Beautiful solution
(why didn't I think of it???

 

[richyrich]

I like this. Beautiful solution
(why didn't I think of it???

an fta receiver with an easy channel list; no setting's for sw/or motor; no positions; just a channel list; easiest. Select every satellite from the list so it will show in the scan menu; bling; bling; bling; lnbf is always 5150 here in usa (standard); scan all satellites in list; one at a time; nice; beauty dish. And all the digital radio and all the fta (old analogs) come back to life without a magicswitch (it will still work with diseq 1x2) satelliteguys.us like it! IT WORKS EASY! YES! BOTH C+KU or any combo! Making it easy is the LNBf used over 1 coax; or dual 2's; or c+ku; then the switch inside would be used. BUT USE NEW LNBF FORT SURE; as it fits right into adjustable scalars! or can be used with own; let it (the 4dtv) ride as true or not using splitters and of course; it is the best motor/dish mover i had ever met (and use the DVB-S2 receiver to switch polarities at the 4dtv stack); using only one coax puts the diseq sw outside (on the c+ku lnbf). Two to inside; then the polarity is controlled by the 4dtv thing again; so instead a C+KU LNBf can be used with SW;

Really? Easy? single output c band LNBf; one coax to inside receiver! Bling! position with display of 4dtv! RC! Easy! Use channel list to find satellites; and if windy; adjust with 4dtv.
(and use the DVB-S2 receiver to switch polarities at the 4dtv stack needs loop-out typed dvb-s2 recvr.);

you could actually mount the new lnbf next to the old one (still hooked to 4dtv) and as long as you found it in the horizontal perfect postion; it will probably work right along side the old one too.!...

 

[Chris_R]

an fta receiver with an easy channel list; no setting's for sw/or motor; no positions; just a channel list; easiest. Select every satellite from the list so it will show in the scan menu; bling; bling; bling; lnbf is always 5150 here in usa (standard); scan all satellites in list; one at a time; nice; beauty dish. And all the digital radio and all the fta (old analogs) come back to life without a magicswitch (it will still work with diseq 1x2) satelliteguys.us like it! IT WORKS EASY! YES! BOTH C+KU or any combo! Making it easy is the LNBf used over 1 coax; or dual 2's; or c+ku; then the switch inside would be used. BUT USE NEW LNBF FORT SURE; as it fits right into adjustable scalars! or can be used with own; let it (the 4dtv) ride as true or not using splitters and of course; it is the best motor/dish mover i had ever met (and use the DVB-S2 receiver to switch polarities at the 4dtv stack); using only one coax puts the diseq sw outside (on the c+ku lnbf). Two to inside; then the polarity is controlled by the 4dtv thing again; so instead a C+KU LNBf can be used with SW;

Really? Easy? single output c band LNBf; one coax to inside receiver! Bling! position with display of 4dtv! RC! Easy! Use channel list to find satellites; and if windy; adjust with 4dtv.
(and use the DVB-S2 receiver to switch polarities at the 4dtv stack needs loop-out typed dvb-s2 recvr.);

you could actually mount the new lnbf next to the old one (still hooked to 4dtv) and as long as you found it in the horizontal perfect postion; it will probably work right along side the old one too.!...

Thanks guys for the advice and support here, keep it coming! I've been giving this a lot of thought for sure this past week, now leaning toward replacing the feedhorn with an lnbf that controls the polarity (Titanium) and something like an Amiko Mini for the FTA receiver...I need to check on that receiver to make sure it will for certain pick up the channels I'm wanting to get.

My quandary is still this: after not having done a C band install in 15 years and always having had help before, I am a total novice at replacing a feedhorn, scared to mess something up or do it wrong. I know I need to measure for focal distance to position it in the scaler properly; I am a little lost when advised to "position the dish at 12:00 on the highest western satellite and align to 0" - okay, we are getting out of my expertise area lol.

Plus, the last time I aligned a dish, we still had analog on all sats...it's been that long. I sold the VC II a few years ago when the transition to digital happened. So this may be a bit tricky, especially since I will likely be aligning the dish using the FTA receiver for optimum performance. Never done that before.

Need some hand holding here and some tips - advice appreciated, especially as the only satellite installers here in town no longer service C-band but have offered to align my dish using their Birddog meter only and not help with the receiver. Thanks!

 

[richyrich]

Thanks guys for the advice and support here, keep it coming! I've been giving this a lot of thought for sure this past week, now leaning toward replacing the feedhorn with an lnbf that controls the polarity (Titanium) and something like an Amiko Mini for the FTA receiver...I need to check on that receiver to make sure it will for certain pick up the channels I'm wanting to get.

My quandary is still this: after not having done a C band install in 15 years and always having had help before, I am a total novice at replacing a feedhorn, scared to mess something up or do it wrong. I know I need to measure for focal distance to position it in the scaler properly; I am a little lost when advised to "position the dish at 12:00 on the highest western satellite and align to 0" - okay, we are getting out of my expertise area lol.

Plus, the last time I aligned a dish, we still had analog on all sats...it's been that long. I sold the VC II a few years ago when the transition to digital happened. So this may be a bit tricky, especially since I will likely be aligning the dish using the FTA receiver for optimum performance. Never done that before.

Need some hand holding here and some tips - advice appreciated, especially as the only satellite installers here in town no longer service C-band but have offered to align my dish using their Birddog meter only and not help with the receiver. Thanks!

Thank you, just got called from Delaware for C Band. Hope he finds here!

The newest are re-ated

1) how many shift keys they can move through; which are rates of data in mode of broadcast the newset are higher numbers they can "tune" called PSK (phase shift keying); of which 32psk (really fastest; considered hybrid) is the highest from the "newest" DVB-S2 receivers. Lasting effect, it went from 16psk to 32psk (might be a limiting factor as this is so fast that only the best parts work) in 2-3 years. Not a bad deal. You use the analog positioner to do polarity and analog and power up the dish; then use the DVB-S2 receiver to tune 500-1000 channels.
2) how well your satellite dish is performing already may be as good as it can get as a satellite dish; and parts needed to add onto your system may only: be a new 32psk h.264 DVB-S2 receiver and a HF 2-way single pass splitter. Analog channel still on F3 (AMC ?) or G1 or G5? for C-SPAN is only channel for checking? Shepards Channel on g6 banner still up yes, not for long...
3) Make sure you hook it up correctly with the HF splitter; the analog receiver is the power and polarity to the dish (uses red line port; single red line to C Band LNB and non-powering port (slave) to dvb-s2 receiver.

4) Receiver's and Branding here on this website offering is how they keep their website/forum going. You get the picture...
5) channel's are located in theList only found here on this website/forum. It is a great list to choose channels from; as it matches their equipment list also; very prime in marking, they have kept it up to date; and really know the stuff well.

start here) you are in the C Band forum; this forum is one of many; ask any question you want and list your equipment by brand and type; inside and outside. This will help you interact with the forum better. Whatever is not here; and I already can tell you are liking your C Band dish for the channels. Write down a list of the channels you want from the list to begin asking questions on channels. Channels are really alll that matters to me also!@

7) many C Band parts are very hard to find today; old school; distribution models are gone; history just like info on your local antenna. Matching parts are available for many newer modeled; basically from 4DTV type (digital) which is the '90's till present day. Changing the equipment is the hardest thing to do to old parts on your dish; recommendations to go with new really may be the best to make a system "online" work better; or at all!!! It is even hard right now to find many C Band LNBf's; as some distribution (changing over to China Manufacturers) and has a quantified problem in new parts also; today's technology mindset...

 

[richyrich]

Yes, check analog channels to see if your system is working at all right now; C-SPAN and G6 (16? 19?) Shepards Channel has barker still (says they will go off air analogwise April 2nd/3rd? They are/will be digital already on same satellite G9? G6? DVB-S, i think.

 

[Titanium]

I am a little lost when advised to "position the dish at 12:00 on the highest western satellite and align to 0"

An LNBF must be installed with the vertical and horizontal probes at the correct angle (skew). The vertical axis of the dish is the 6/12 o'clock angles when the dish is aimed at the top of the arc (true South). The "0" (zero) skew marker on the rear of the LNBF will be installed in this vertical axis. To state it another way, the zero skew marking on the rear of the LNBF will be aimed at either the 6 o'clock position (straight down) or the 12 o'clock position (straight up) when the dish is parked at the apex of the arc.

Since most of us do not work on the feedhorn when the dish is at the top of the arc and high up in the air, we have a trick to identify the correct angle to install our feedhorns even when we have the dish aimed much lower angle near the horizon on the ends of the arc. To do this, position the dish at the top of the arc (aimed directly towards true south) and mark the bottom rim of the dish for the 6 o'clock position. Now when you swing the dish East or West, you always know that the feedhorn's vertical axis will be aimed at this mark, no matter where you are parked on the arc.

Plus, the last time I aligned a dish, we still had analog on all sats...it's been that long. I sold the VC II a few years ago when the transition to digital happened. So this may be a bit tricky, especially since I will likely be aligning the dish using the FTA receiver for optimum performance.

Not tricky at all!

1. In advance of the install, go to a web site like Sathint.com or www.global-cm.net and copy one or two transponder frequencies for active channels on each satellite that you wish to find. I would suggest transponders with many channels, a high symbol rate and DVBS (MPEG2) if possible. These wide signals are much easier to find!
   
2. Place the DVBS S2 receiver in the installation menu and select one of the referenced active transponders for the satellite that you are attempting to locate.
   
3. Now use the 4DTV to move to this satellite. Once the dish has moved to the position selected by the 4DTV, observe the DVBS/S2 signal meter reading at the bottom of the install screen. The Signal Quality meter reading will turn green and peak when the dish aiming is optimized.
   
4. If the signal quality reading is not displaying a good reading, SLOWLY swing the dish across the section of the arc where the satellite is located until the Signal Quality meter reading displays a green signal reading and the level is peaked.
   
5. Now save the dish position on the 4DTV like you always have done in the past.
   
6. Perform a Blind Scan of the satellite for "FREE" channels.

Once the scan is complete, select the next satellite and repeat these steps for each satellite.

Often installers just set the arc with there meter and walk away without showing to the customer that each satellite that the customer wishes to receive is programmed into the IRD. While it is useful for the technician to verify that the dish is tracking the arc, you may want to pay him a few more dollars to program each of the satellites into the 4DTV IRD. This will save you considerable time. Even if your installer is going to use his Birdog meter, it would be a great time saver for you to have him locate and save each satellite position on the 4DTV that you wish to receive.

I am heading up to Oroville, CA in a week or so to pick-up a 65' crank-up tower and an amateur radio beam antenna that I bought off of Craigslist. Might have a few hours to help you in exchange for some help loading the trailer....

 

[FaT Air]

Move the dish, with the actuator, until if faces due south. It's the highest the dish 'looks.
Note the very top of the dish while standing between the dish and satellites. That would be the dishes 12 o'clock . The furthest point of the dish on your right is the 3, left is 9, and lowest is it's '6'.

The mount is connected to the dish. The feed struts are from the dish and connected to the scalar ring. The 'feed' is held in the scalar ring by a set screw. Measure the length of feed that protrudes out the grooved side of the scalar.

Loosen previously mentioned set screw and slide the feed out the back of the scalar.
Insert your new LNBF into the scalar ring with the same length protruding.
It will be 'close enough' for a start.

Once we know which LNBF you have we can tell you where to place the 'skew mark' on the back of the LNBF. I think most now want it at noon (12 o'clock) Mine is a bit older and it needed to be at 3 o'clock.

wow, I'm a slow typer. nice offer Titanium.

 

[KE4EST]

That is a really nice offer Brian!!