Samsung DLP pic quality (about to take the plunge)

[120inna55]

I'm about to take the plunge and purchase a 61" Samsung DLP RPTV Model HLN617W. This is at the upper end of my budget for a TV, but I currently have a 7 year-old Toshiba CF36G40 (36" 4:3 CRT), so it's time for an upgrade.

I've heard good reviews both regarding the "HD2" technology and this particular model. I'm aware of potentially seeing "rainbows" so I'll inspect one before purchasing and will purchase it at a place that has money-back guarantee.

Here's my issue: I currently do not have access to HDTV. I own a Dish Network DVR 721 on which I obviously recieve standard def. programming. I know Dish Network offers HDTV receivers, but I'm attached to the DVR functionality. I'm not yet ready to upgrade to their 9xx series DVR. Therefore all of my viewing will consist of SD programming via Dish Network (except of course 420p DVD).

Many of the reviews state that "poor signals" viewed with this Samsung look "exceptionally poor". I don't know if the "poor signals" to which the reviewers are referring envelope all SDTV, or just over-the-air weak signals. I guess what I'm tring to ask is, "Will this upgrade look like a downgrade if I only use it for SDTV & occasional progressive scan DVD?"

Thanks for advising a noobie.

 

[cpdretired]

I'm about to take the plunge and purchase a 61" Samsung DLP RPTV Model HLN617W. This is at the upper end of my budget for a TV, but I currently have a 7 year-old Toshiba CF36G40 (36" 4:3 CRT), so it's time for an upgrade.

I've heard good reviews both regarding the "HD2" technology and this particular model. I'm aware of potentially seeing "rainbows" so I'll inspect one before purchasing and will purchase it at a place that has money-back guarantee.

Here's my issue: I currently do not have access to HDTV. I own a Dish Network DVR 721 on which I obviously recieve standard def. programming. I know Dish Network offers HDTV receivers, but I'm attached to the DVR functionality. I'm not yet ready to upgrade to their 9xx series DVR. Therefore all of my viewing will consist of SD programming via Dish Network (except of course 420p DVD).

Many of the reviews state that "poor signals" viewed with this Samsung look "exceptionally poor". I don't know if the "poor signals" to which the reviewers are referring envelope all SDTV, or just over-the-air weak signals. I guess what I'm tring to ask is, "Will this upgrade look like a downgrade if I only use it for SDTV & occasional progressive scan DVD?"

Thanks for advising a noobie.

I have the 50" version of this TV. The HD picture quality is beautiful. I have both Dish and Voom. Both services look great. Dish SD using the 811 looks a little fuzzy if the SD picture is stretched the fit the screen. Voom seems to be less compressed for SD. It looks much better than Dish.

I have had the TV since January. When I first got it I was seeing the rainbow's. The longer that I have the TV the less I see them. My wife has never seen the rainbow patterns.

Back to the HD. Sign up for Voom. No commitment, no installation fee, you can't go wrong. The basic service will cost you about $52.00 with tax. If you don't like it cancel the service. You have until the end of the month to make up your mind.

With the Sammy you have three HD inputs. One DVI and two component for HD. You also have several analog inputs. You won't have a problem using two services. Unless you are building the set in get the matching stand. It really looks sharp.

 

[pete65]

Don't forget, an HDTV of that size is going to magnify the picture you see on your current 36"; any defects on the signal that are 'acceptable' on your present TV will look that much worse on the 61".

One question: Why would you go for such a beautiful HDTV (the Samsung 61" is what I'm looking to get in a few weeks) and intend on staying with SD? I think Cpdretired is right. Although I won't advise on one HD path or the other (I'm going with Voom), I'd say you should at least consider getting an HD source, whether it's the anemic offerings of DirecTV, Dish, or cable, the overflowing HD content of Voom (Ok, I had to do that), or, at the very least, a terrestrial HD box so you can pick up your local stations in HD.

 

[120inna55]

Don't forget, an HDTV of that size is going to magnify the picture you see on your current 36"; any defects on the signal that are 'acceptable' on your present TV will look that much worse on the 61".

One question: Why would you go for such a beautiful HDTV (the Samsung 61" is what I'm looking to get in a few weeks) and intend on staying with SD? I think Cpdretired is right. Although I won't advise on one HD path or the other (I'm going with Voom), I'd say you should at least consider getting an HD source, whether it's the anemic offerings of DirecTV, Dish, or cable, the overflowing HD content of Voom (Ok, I had to do that), or, at the very least, a terrestrial HD box so you can pick up your local stations in HD.

Perhaps, I was misleading... I do intend to get HD eventually (within 6-8 months). I just don't want to splurge for a buggy 921 just yet. I don't want to leave Dish. I don't want HD without PVR capability.

 

[RobbinM]

Most people don't see the DLP "rainbows" -- and if you do, most do eventually learn to ignore them. A very small percentage of people report eye fatigue and a few other issues with DLP sets. This is more serious. I owned the 61" Samgsung for a month but had to return it because my eyes kept bothering me. Again, this is very rare.

Fortunately, I had opted to pay more to buy at a local store (versus Internet deals) that offered a 30 day return. This was a life saver for me.

If you haven't already, check out the Rear Projection forum in avsform.com. There is a ton of information and discussion on DLP and LCD RP sets there.

 

[long_time_DNC]

I belive that model of Samsung has the 7-segment color wheel, which eliminates the rainbow effect (or substantially reduces it). I too have the 50" model and have never seen the rainbow effect.

SD looks nice (a tiny bit fuzzy, depending on the channel), but HD looks great!

Hope that helps.

 

[squicken]

I don't think a DVR and a HD receiver are mutually exclusive. Dish doesn't charge a rental for their 811, just $10/month for HD programming pack. Keep your SD DVR, and maybe every once in a while you'll watch some HDTV.

 

[K R Kimmel]

Another Samsung DLP owner here. (50" HLN507W) I'm going to have to agree with the crowd on this. HD PQ is stunning on my TV. As far as SD performance is concerned I find it to be perfectly acceptable. In comparison with my 32" direct view TV the SD PQ is worse on the Samsung, however this is due more to the size of the TV than to deficiencies in the technology, I see the same decrease in PQ on a friend's similarly sized CRT based RPTV.

On the subject of rainbows I will say that yes I do see them but no they do not bother me. You can try to look for them before you purchase the set but the conditions in almost all stores is not conducive to seeing rainbows. I find that I am most likely to see rainbows if the room I'm watching in is dimly illuminated while the program material is a dark scene with a high contrast item on screen (IE night scene of a man in a dark suit with a white shirt) as I quickly glance from side to side.

It took several instances of this for me to realize I was seeing rainbows. My initial reaction was "did I just see something?" The duration of the rainbows is similar to that of a camera flash but of much lower intensity.

In short I would say go ahead and get the set, but make sure to purchase it from a store with a good return policy in the event that you do see rainbows and find they bother you or if you find yourself subject to eye strain.

 

[colofan]

I only notice a rainbow effect if I blink while I have a high contrast picture with a lot of dark in the image.

I have a second gen DLP projector....... 5x speed wheel

My understanding is that the 7 segment is to improve the red performance though I have a 6 segment and I don't notice a red performance problem.

Infocus has recently introduced a a 3 chip design for "home" use though the cost is a bit of a reach for most people.

 

[long_time_DNC]

The 7 segment wheel is primarily there to reduce green tinting effects (which I've only seen rarely on my 6 segment wheel model - the 507W), and the rainbow effect can been seen if you work at it, but I've had my 50" TV for almost a year now and have never seen it very often, if at all.

I agree: go for the set. I'm sure you'll like it.

 

[Carl B]

The big issue w/ your potential SD PQ will be the distance at which you view SD on the 61" Sammy DLP. Any closer than about 12 feet and you will probably think the SD PQ is fuzzy (jagged edges of the pixel construct due to lack of information in the SD stream). I've posted here before about viewing distance, but I just pull the information from the Sony guide, which is viewable on-line at Sony.

Also, the source of the SD makes a big difference in PQ. E* locals can be poor (due to over-compression) to good. E* premium channels are usually very good to excellent as is OTA DTV (non-HD). Best PQ for SD on the Sammy will be with the DVI connection or at least the component connection. S-Video will offer more disappointing results.

BTW, I have a 50" Sammy DLP (HLN507W) hooked to a Dish 811 via DVI connection and I'm very pleased overall with all PQ from this set up.

 

[DarrellP]

Perhaps, I was misleading... I do intend to get HD eventually (within 6-8 months). I just don't want to splurge for a buggy 921 just yet. I don't want to leave Dish. I don't want HD without PVR capability.

If you're not ready to splurge for a PVR yet, then what's the big deal? Voom will be replacing the current stb with a PVR when it comes out later this year. Go for Voom and keep the Dish HD Pack, that's what I did and there's no going back. Dish SD totally sucks on a HD set.

 

[bradley]

DLP is limited to 720p

As impressive as DLP is...

One thing to keep in mind is present consumer DLP is limited to 720p. The chipset is only designed to produce a maximum of 720p.

You will never be able to view in true 1080i. Your image will be down converted to 720p.

Food for thought.

 

[douweb]

I have the 43" HLN4365 w/ the 811 ... HD looks fantastic (I am sure regardless if size because I also have a 84" screen with FrontProjection and the 921) ... SD is pretty good with the 43 (but then it's 43 vs 60+)

 

[Carl B]

You will never be able to view in true 1080i. Your image will be down converted to 720p.

To which, one responds, "who cares". This is the old 1080i is better than 720p argument, which has no resolution (pardon the pun).

With half the major networks 720p native, regardless of which way you go, there will be scaling. The nice thing is that, generally, scalers do a better job of scaling 1080i to 720p than going the other way. For example, 1080i owners are ofter disappointed in their ESPNHD football games, while 720p owners think that is the gold standard of HD. To each his own, until, if ever, 1080p becomes viable (yeah there will be a set out this fall, but there won't be any content that isn't scaled until who knows when, if ever).

 

[DarrellP]

Little known to the "1080i" crowd, very few sets display higher than 1400 lines anyway, so they are not seeing "the whole picture" either. Our local CBS engineer even confessed in a forum that they send out their picture in 1400 lines to save on bandwidth due to the TV's limitations.

My pj is native 720p and I think 1080i coverted to 720p on my set looks much better than a native 720p signal, it looks more detailed and snappy.