Take a close look at what Dish has just done to us

[waltinvt]

Go back and read the initial Echostar press release (at the beginning of this thread).

"EchoStar Communications Corporation announced that its DISH Network(TM) satellite TV service will expand its high-definition television (HDTV) package by adding 10 original VOOM HD networks, expected to be available May 1, 2005. With the addition of these originals to its current slate of HD programming, DISH Network further establishes itself as the leader in high-definition TV.

"will expand its HD package"......"by adding" "with the addition of"

" "The addition of these original channels makes the DISH Network high definition package the best in the pay-TV industry," ".

It clearly defines the new channels as becoming part of Dish's HD package. No mention of it being "optional", "available as an add-on" or a new tier of some sort. Nor is there any mention of an additional cost.

IF what some of you are hearing is true, like the additional $$ or new customers only, then it's obvious that Dish is making a last-minute "marketing adjustment" based on the response it has seen since their press release. Why ? Apparently because they can.

Personally I think it's all just rumors. Even I don't believe Dish is that low. It would be like a car salesman, once seeing your interest in the vechicle, decides to add another $500 to the sticker. Pretty low class - even for Dish.

What would make more sense is for Dish to just added whatever Voom channels it has currently negoiated to the existing HD pak and then, as the other channels become available, announce a new price for the whole HD package.

But then I've always given them too much credit - which is why I'm still a customer after 9 years.

 

[JohnL]

Go back and read the initial Echostar press release (at the beginning of this thread).

"EchoStar Communications Corporation announced that its DISH Network(TM) satellite TV service will expand its high-definition television (HDTV) package by adding 10 original VOOM HD networks, expected to be available May 1, 2005. With the addition of these originals to its current slate of HD programming, DISH Network further establishes itself as the leader in high-definition TV.

"will expand its HD package"......"by adding" "with the addition of"

" "The addition of these original channels makes the DISH Network high definition package the best in the pay-TV industry," ".

It clearly defines the new channels as becoming part of Dish's HD package. No mention of it being "optional", "available as an add-on" or a new tier of some sort. Nor is there any mention of an additional cost.

IF what some of you are hearing is true, like the additional $$ or new customers only, then it's obvious that Dish is making a last-minute "marketing adjustment" based on the response it has seen since their press release. Why ? Apparently because they can.

Personally I think it's all just rumors. Even I don't believe Dish is that low. It would be like a car salesman, once seeing your interest in the vechicle, decides to add another $500 to the sticker. Pretty low class - even for Dish.

What would make more sense is for Dish to just added whatever Voom channels it has currently negoiated to the existing HD pak and then, as the other channels become available, announce a new price for the whole HD package.

But then I've always given them too much credit - which is why I'm still a customer after 9 years.

Really,

You have to be Kidding me, 90 percent of Hd owners are clamoring for MORE Content in HD and Dish is NOW delivering it in spades for 10 dollars more.

In one move the Dish HD package increases from 4 channels to 14 and from $9.99 to $19.99 and you pick up 10 more channels in HD, cost per channel is vastly lower, per channel cost before was $2.49, now .74 cents. WOW, boy is Dish Screwing us. Bottomline you are on the top of the heap in terms of even having a HD set. With that said if you can't afford or want more HD content in your package WHY do you even have a HD Television.

Channel packaging is the way ALL providers can and do offer more channels without huge rights fees, its the business model ALL providers use. DirecTV is likely to get the same deal going, BUT and its a BIG one, THEY Don't currently have the bandwidth to offer any more HD content.

I have a suggestion either stop complaining or get a another provider with vastly less HD and MAYBE pay less for your complete package, BTW its likely that most other providers will go the same route.

Your Car sales analogy is Flawed, its more like the Car you were looking at was sold before you could put in an ACCEPTED offer, once that car is no longer available the only other models on the lot have extra features that push the car up in price.

Heres a thought most HD owners WANT the extra content. Since this is the case, Dish is doing what most HD package subs want. Unfortunately you are likely a minority, In wanting less content or maintaining the status quo. The MSO's business model drive the packaging and you are a statistical minority that is caught, so you have two choices pay or don't, This means you Get HD or Don't, or it means you switch providers or don't.

John

 

[ksload]

Well the frustrating aspect of this is that I would be paying Dish $120 a month for a similar content package that I got with Voom for $20 a month less.

 

[BrianMis]

I guess we will see, personally when I first received the news of this I called *E and talked to a really nice CSR. This was around 3:30 eastern time. She seemed really knowledgeable and told me that since I already had the "HD" pak I wouldn't have to do anything, the new channels would just show up sometime on Sunday.

Knowing that *E has no space on 110 or 119 to add these additional channels I asked her about that, she responded the tech people are moving some things around to make room. I said OK, great. I left work happy, came home and started reading again and realized how untrue what she told was. I"ve only been a *E subscriber for 2 months and have not had a bad experience with them.

I guess we will just have to wait to see what happens. At any rate I wish they would just let us know what is going on. I really don't care if I have to make changes, I just want to know what those changes are going to be.

 

[JohnL]

Well the frustrating aspect of this is that I would be paying Dish $120 a month for a similar content package that I got with Voom for $20 a month less.

Ksload,

Poppycock, a Dish package of $120 would include Locals (hummm, Voom didn't have locals), Complete SD Content (Hummm Voom's subset of SD was hundreds of channels short, regional sports for example I could go on and on). Bottomline you are comparing Apples and Oranges.

In the end, most MSO subs want a complete package of SD, Locals, and HD. Voom was incomplete and as a result cheaper, but their lack of Locals, and a complete package of SD was the major reason they were doomed from the start and are now GONE.

Don't believe me, you only have to look at the market data, until both Dish and DirecTV added local into local their subscriber aquisitions had leveled off, the only way to increase their market share was to add local into local.

This shows that without a completely rounded out package of SD, Locals and HD, most prospective Subs IGNORED Voom as the bit player they were. So the only way to get and KEEP subs was and is to be a ONE STOP SHOP, this means packaging. This also means the more content as well as HD you want the more you likely to pay, seems fair to me, besides HD sucks down huge amounts of bandwidth. All MSO's should base their prices on this as well as other factors such as HD market penetration, and Subscriber take up numbers .


John

 

[waltinvt]

Really,

You have to be Kidding me, 90 percent of Hd owners are clamoring for MORE Content in HD and Dish is NOW delivering it in spades for 10 dollars more.

In one move the Dish HD package increases from 4 channels to 14 and from $9.99 to $19.99 and you pick up 10 more channels in HD, cost per channel is vastly lower, per channel cost before was $2.49, now .74 cents. WOW, boy is Dish Screwing us. Bottom line you are on the top of the heap in terms of even having a HD set. With that said if you can't afford or want more HD content in your package WHY do you even have a HD Television.

Channel packaging is the way ALL providers can and do offer more channels without huge rights fees, its the business model ALL providers use. DirecTV is likely to get the same deal going, BUT and its a BIG one, THEY Don't currently have the bandwidth to offer any more HD content.

I have a suggestion either stop complaining or get a another provider with vastly less HD and MAYBE pay less for your complete package, BTW its likely that most other providers will go the same route.

Your Car sales analogy is Flawed, its more like the Car you were looking at was sold before you could put in an ACCEPTED offer, once that car is no longer available the only other models on the lot have extra features that push the car up in price.

Heres a thought most HD owners WANT the extra content. Since this is the case, Dish is doing what most HD package subs want. Unfortunately you are likely a minority, In wanting less content or maintaining the status quo. The MSO's business model drive the packaging and you are a statistical minority that is caught, so you have two choices pay or don't, This means you Get HD or Don't, or it means you switch providers or don't.

John

Don't get your panties in a tither sonny. I never said that a bigger and better HD tier wouldn't be worth more money. I was just pointing out what Dish said in their press release versus what they appeared to be doing if the rumors were true.

I personally have no problem with paying a little more for a product when it's been improved. I've even posted here and elsewhere to that affect. I just think that if Dish had intended to raise the price or charge extra immediately, they could and should have made mention of it in yesterday's press release. I think most of us expect to pay more for better programming.

Its perfectly reasonable for Dish to announce a programming change and along with it a price change. Its also reasonable to periodically raise prices to reflect improvements in programming.

Again, I was simply pointing out that if what was being reported was true and that Dish was actually adding conditions in mid-stream so to speak because of customer response, then I thought it was an obvious case of exploiting a situation and lacked class. But hey, that's just my opinion. Just like it's my opinion that you may have over-reacted a tad to my post.

 

[boba]

DISH has done such a poor job of releasing this information that it is little better than RUMORS. So far the only thing I see is DISH has issued a press release for WALL STREET CSR's, dealers and even people at TEAM SUMMIT are in the dark as far as what is actually being done. The FCC hasn't approved DISH use/purchase of Rainbow 1 or the uplink center, Cablevision hasn't leased the satellite to DISH so DISH can't use the frequencies at 61.5 owned by Cablevision. Does DISH even have an uplink center that can use Rainbow 1?

 

[Larry]

DISH has done such a poor job of releasing this information that it is little better than RUMORS. So far the only thing I see is DISH has issued a press release for WALL STREET CSR's, dealers and even people at TEAM SUMMIT are in the dark as far as what is actually being done. The FCC hasn't approved DISH use/purchase of Rainbow 1 or the uplink center, Cablevision hasn't leased the satellite to DISH so DISH can't use the frequencies at 61.5 owned by Cablevision. Does DISH even have an uplink center that can use Rainbow 1?

In addition....

While I agree with waltinvt, I find this whole VOOM channel scenario amusing. While I do believe Dish will add the channels, it's strange how at first they were just going to be added...then they would be added for an additional $5 per month...now rumor has the price at an additional $10 per month.

At risk of fuelling the rumors, I'd like to point out that people have been complaining that $9.99 per month was too much to pay for the meager HDTV package now available. Increasing fees (especially if it's $10) for adding channels with suspect names like Rave HD, Rush HD, Guy TV HD, Monsters HD, etc. doesn't seem like that great of a deal. What happened to compelling content?

 

[DWS44]

What is interesting to me in reading the whole team summit rumor and HD expansion threads is noting in the early to mid-point of them is the proliferation of "good-will" that E* had spread on the HD-starved masses. Everyone was up and excited that E* was finally "giving" us something...then the leaks of $5 (now $10?) price increase, and the slap-in-the-face "new subs only" stories...and by the end of that thread we were back to the status-quo of E* is too cheap...Charlie is a liar and a cheat...Dish Lies...the same ole accusations we read daily.

All that good-will and excitement went out the window in a hurry.

 

[goaliebob99]

this is one thing i can tell you if what the exec office told me lastnight is true About it being for new subs only, im telling them to come out and rip this peace of sh*t out....

 

[rocatman]

DISH has done such a poor job of releasing this information that it is little better than RUMORS. So far the only thing I see is DISH has issued a press release for WALL STREET CSR's, dealers and even people at TEAM SUMMIT are in the dark as far as what is actually being done. The FCC hasn't approved DISH use/purchase of Rainbow 1 or the uplink center, Cablevision hasn't leased the satellite to DISH so DISH can't use the frequencies at 61.5 owned by Cablevision. Does DISH even have an uplink center that can use Rainbow 1?

Can you provide a source for your statement about Cablevision not leasing the satellite (R-1) to Dish? Dish obviously has an uplink center for the 61.5 W location and why couldn't Dish lease the Cablevision/Rainbow uplink center? Please provide some rationale for your obvious conjecture.

 

[mike123abc]

Dish is probably not leasing the space on R-1, CVC just happens to be transmitting VOOM channels from R-1 to their customers at Dishnetwork. It is a subtle difference but an important one. It would not cause the FCC to get all upset since the FCC has not approved any leasing of CVC uplink centers or satellites to Dish. CVC continues to use R-1 to service their customers (who all just happen to now be DishNetwork subs subscribing to the VOOM package). CVC continues to use their uplink center and satellite like normal.

Dish just changed their NIT to show the VOOM channels on TPs 1,3,5 & 7 of the VOOM satellite. I wonder if this is why Dish has not announce putting them on 148 yet since they would need a way to downlink the VOOM channels and uplink them to their own satellite.

 

[Juan]

here's another press release VOOM 21 HD Originals Unveiled at EchoStar Dealer Conference in Nashville, TN on Friday, April 29, 2005 by Rainbow Media President and CEO Josh Sapan (R) and Eric Sahl, VP of Programming for EchoStar (L)

Photo of Rainbow Media's Josh Sapan and EchoStar's Eric Sahl at EchoStar Dealer Conference is Available on Business Wire's Web Site and AP PhotoExpress

- http://home.businesswire.com/portal...iewID=news_view

- http://home.businesswire.com/portal...leId=2133606841

Rainbow Media Holdings LLC launched the Voom 21 HD Originals, a suite of 21 high-definition channels May 1. EchoStar Communications Corp. is the first company to offer the suite.

Joshua Sapan, Rainbow Media president and CEO, told Satellite Today that 10 of the 21 Voom HD Originals channels launched on Dish Network, EchoStar's direct-to-home satellite television service. "When EchoStar deploys MPEG-4 more widely, we will offer the full 21 channels" to Dish Network subscribers, Sapan said.

EchoStar is expected to begin offering the full package by the end of the year andVoom 21 will be offered to subscribers as part of EchoStar's HD programming package at no additional charge. "In the near term, during this transition phase, there will likely be a small incremental charge to access the Voom programming," he said.

EchoStar did not release pricing information specifically related to this HD program offering.

 

[Juan]

:river :yikes please note how the press release above contradicts itself!!..It says no additional charge..then it says small incremental increase...scott can you explain?

 

[HokieEngineer]

I would like to see how many people actually shell out the extra $5. Had these been channels like starz, inHD, etc. I probably would. I can't believe they arent even going to give a month preview or something to entice people to watch these channels, especially people unfamiliar with the voom programming.

 

[John Kotches]

StarzHD is included in a Starz subscription.

Juan -- reading between the lines, I think the reality is that the cost of the HD pack is going to go from $10-15 a month

Cheers,

 

[ksload]

I didn't need to pay for my locals with Voom since I received ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX & WB with the antenna that they provided.

I don't care about the regional sports packages. Voom had nearly all the programming I wanted save for superstation. Now I'd have to pay more for fewer HD channels...remember Dish still doesn't have UniversalHD, CinemaxHD, TMCHD, and StarzHD.

Ksload,

Poppycock, a Dish package of $120 would include Locals (hummm, Voom didn't have locals), Complete SD Content (Hummm Voom's subset of SD was hundreds of channels short, regional sports for example I could go on and on). Bottomline you are comparing Apples and Oranges.

In the end, most MSO subs want a complete package of SD, Locals, and HD. Voom was incomplete and as a result cheaper, but their lack of Locals, and a complete package of SD was the major reason they were doomed from the start and are now GONE.

Don't believe me, you only have to look at the market data, until both Dish and DirecTV added local into local their subscriber aquisitions had leveled off, the only way to increase their market share was to add local into local.

This shows that without a completely rounded out package of SD, Locals and HD, most prospective Subs IGNORED Voom as the bit player they were. So the only way to get and KEEP subs was and is to be a ONE STOP SHOP, this means packaging. This also means the more content as well as HD you want the more you likely to pay, seems fair to me, besides HD sucks down huge amounts of bandwidth. All MSO's should base their prices on this as well as other factors such as HD market penetration, and Subscriber take up numbers .


John

 

[GaryPen]

All that good-will and excitement went out the window in a hurry.

And for perfectly good reasons, if the rumors are true.

 

[GaryPen]

:river :yikes please note how the press release above contradicts itself!!..It says no additional charge..then it says small incremental increase...scott can you explain?

Imagine, Dish Network talking out of both sides of their ass. I'm shocked...SHOCKED.

 

[GaryPen]

StarzHD is included in a Starz subscription.

Juan -- reading between the lines, I think the reality is that the cost of the HD pack is going to go from $10-15 a month

Cheers,

I said the same thing yesterday over on the Dishlovers forum (dbstalk). But, like an idiot, I said they would do it when they released the full 21 channels. Even I, a rabid Dish cynic, didn't think they would pull such a blatant bait and switch after their announcement of the initial 10. <sigh>

The fact is, it is only worth $10 a month, maybe $12, for the the HD Pack with the 10 new channels. The original pack was never worth $10.

Once they have the entire 21, it will be worth no more than $15 or $16. Anything more is BS.