phatnuts said:bumpity bump bump bump all installers need to sign up or we will be lookin for new jobs soon with the new contract I seen that perfect 10 drew up for all hsp's and msp's
Chado said:Drastic times don't always call for drastic measures.... I won't even pretend to understand the past, current or future situation, but I can speak from experience in living in a blue collar town. I have seen the good and the bad that have resulted at the hands of unions.
The only advice I can give you is to please make sure you make an educated decision. Sometimes you have to take a step back from the threat to your livelihood and look at all possible options.
Take this for you what you will and I wish everyone the best of luck.
charper1 said:Just to be the devil's advocate here what do you do when (like the tech and auto industry) you price and complain yourself right out of common sense and they just move to contracting firms that hires non-union labor to do the same work for 40% less? Now I don't claim to know all the nuances of your companies but in all three of my homes I have had built I did the A/V, phone and data wiring myself on two story tile roofs with wall fishing, attic and under floor work as well, and although very hard work, I needed no special training or degree. Similar to what I think Chado was saying is that look at past industries where the workers had killed their own livelihoods by not looking at the WHOLE picture from BOTH sides and making sure they have attached a true appropriate value to what they do.
Just remember I said I was "playing the devil's advocate" and wasn't slamming you; just throwing out some ideas. We Americans do have a bad habit of over valuing our jobs while bitching & complaining ourselves right out of good work and into the unemployment lines; and then blaming everyone else. Now if you are flat out getting screwed and treated damn near like slave labor, then by all means go for it.
CPanther95 said:You're better off looking to yourself for solutions than the unions. Perhaps the CWA is different than most - but the ones I've dealt with are not that interested in the workers themselves. They are simply "dues machines" doing the absolute minimum to justify collecting their dues and getting involved politically - not to benefit the workers - but to maximize the number of dues paying members.
The unions have been very good to us here in the Carolinas however. We are full of manufacturing plants of businesses that were driven out of the Northeast by the unions. So I guess I shouldn't complain.
CPanther95 said:I might be a bit jaded since my hometown is in Western PA and I lived near Allentown prior to moving down here where I saw the union at Mack Truck not budge an inch so they packed up and moved to South Carolina. IIRC, Mack had offered to bump them to $33/hour - the union kept their demands at $35/hour - now they're lucky to find a job at $10/hour.
LonghornXP said:A company can't outsource the work or move the business to another state. They can't do an install in Largo, FL with a worker in LA can they.
Chado said:No, but the unions can drive up salaries for workers to a level that may not be equivalent to the amount/quality of labor being done. This would have a "trickle-down" effect as D* would just pass this on to the customer in many ways. Higher bills, slower rollout of high perfomance hardware (god forbid), etc. Then its possible that the demand for D* would decrease meaning that there would be less work for installers and so on and so on....
I am generalizing and assuming, but I think you get my point.
CPanther95 said:Obviously there's a point at which you can safely say - it can't be any worse. If this particular industry is clearly going into the sh*tter from the worker's perspective and there is no future if the trend continues - then it's time to look at any possible alternative.
LonghornXP said:Why is UPS not having these problems. They offer tons of benefits and very very high pay among many other things. With all that said they no doubt make a profit quarter after quarter while their S&H rates aren't any higher than FedEx and USPS and they quite often partner with say Amazon for free shipping and such. I think I read an article about Amazon customers can pre-order the new Harry Potter book and they would get it shipped for free on the day of its release. I ended up having to buy three of them so I don't have to deal with the stores and have the kids yelling nonstop at me.
I'm just sick of hearing that prices would be passed on to customers and the company won't make profits and so on and so forth. Every decent sized company that has a union in place today is doing very well. I just wish people would actually do some research instead of always posting what they believe to be true but isn't.
LonghornXP said:If things are getting that bad how is it any easier for everyone to quit and start over.
Chado said:Ask GM the same questions.... The union has them by the nards!!!
LonghornXP said:If things are getting that bad how is it any easier for everyone to quit and start over. Maybe it might be better for once to fight back and say enough is enough. The way things are going you won't have an alternative. Going by your logic would eventually fail because once big business got into everything you won't have an alternative left that they don't control. Once that happens you have to say enough is enough. With that said why wait until that happens. Why not just stop things before they occur.
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