What would you pay for VOOM DVR?

[Ken F]

Recognize that HD DVR doesn't come cheap. The Dish Network 921 HD DVR and HDTV DirecTivo both sell for $999.

What would you be willing to pay for a VOOM DVR with the following specifications:

• Four tuners (two OTA, two satellite)
  
• Pause, instant replay, 30-sec skip, rewind, fast forward
  
• 250Gb capacity (25 hours HD w/ MPEG2, 35+ hours HD w/ WM9)
  
• Watch two different HD programs simultaneously (on separate HDTVs or with picture-in-picture) with separate audio
• Record two HD channels simultaneously, while watching a third
  
• Built-in 3/2 pull-down for film on SD channels
  
• Whole-home PVR networking (could be with software update)
  1. DVR functionality available on all connected TVs
  2. Single, in-home library of recorded programs with folder organization
  3. Single, whole-home list of parental controls and other user preferences
  4. Multiple, independent sessions among connected TVs
  5. Follow-Me TVTM: Pause-and-play seamless viewing from TV to TV

For comparative purposes, the HDTV DVR being deployed by most cable companies is the Motorola 6208. Cost for the box is $9.95/mo to $14.95/mo. It features only a single tuner and 80Gb capacity for 7-9 hours of HD storage. With this cable HD DVR, you can only record one program at once, and you can't record one program while watching another.

 

[Kickor]

Uhmmm ... where's the box for "None of the above".

 

[Ken F]

Kickor,

This poll is only for those that want the DVR. If you don't want the VOOM DVR, please don't vote.

I'm sure we'd all like the "VOOM DVR for FREE" option, but then there wouldn't be much value to the poll. VOOM is considering whether to just sell it at one price, or offer a lease, and any lease will have to make sense, from a cost perspective. At $19.95/mo, it would take about four years to total $899, when accounting for the TVM.

 

[StevenD]

About the PVR networking stuff...will that run on COAX throughout the house or will it by chance run on Ethernet?

 

[HeavyC]

They won't tie the DVR to a programming package like that. At least I don't believe they will, and I think 24.99 is probably the max they'd charge per month. I guess I'd say that 29.99 per month is reasonable if that includes all of the thin clients and no mirroring fees.

It would be nice if they had a lease program where we could build credits towards the DVR's eventual purchase.

 

[andrzej]

Ken,
sorry if my question is stupid but I have never had Tivo or similar. Do I understand it correctly that this DVR would replace my current Voom receiver? In other words, does the $19.95/month option mean paying $10.00 more than I am paying now for leasing? If that's the case I think that it would be a good deal, at least for me.

 

[Ken F]

andre,

Yes, it would replace your current box, if you're only using one television. Note VOOM hasn't made a decision on rental yet (or at least, that's what they are saying).

If you have multiple televisions, the DVR is also supposed to function as a media server, streaming high-def recordings (with full PVR functionality) to standard VOOM STBs (or a separate thin client) located throughout your house. Details on how exactly this will work are sketchy, but I guess it will probably involve a small box/switch installed outdoors, which would essentially uplink every other box you have installed to the VOOM DVR, much like you'd connect multiple computers to an Internet router. Hopefully, transmission would operate on a separate set of frequencies, so no additional cables would be required for the network.

 

[Ken F]

andre,

Yes, it would replace your current box, if you're only using one television. Note VOOM hasn't made a decision on rental yet (or at least, that's what they are saying).

If you have multiple televisions, the DVR is also supposed to function as a media server, streaming high-def recordings (with full PVR functionality) to standard VOOM STBs (or a separate thin client) located throughout your house. Details on how exactly this will work are sketchy, but I guess it will probably involve a small box/switch installed outdoors, which would essentially uplink every other box you have installed to the VOOM DVR, much like you'd connect multiple computers to an Internet router. Hopefully, transmission would operate on a separate set of frequencies, so no additional cables would be required for the network.

Here's a page of the CES product brochure, from the main VOOM DVR thread.

 

[VideoGrabber]

Ken,

would the new DVR include Firewire ports, to allow offloading content once the hard drive fills up? Thanks.

- Tim

 

[rexoverbey]

None of the above.

 

[rexoverbey]

Recognize that HD DVR doesn't come cheap.

I don't buy into that technology costing that much. The only part that is expensive is that you need a bigger hard drive to record hd on to. Now you can buy a $200 gig hd for neerly nothing.

 

[rexoverbey]

I don't understand people saying voom won't make any money. As of now they charge more as it is with less service. If any non Voomer says different everyone jumps on them like savages. Not everyone here has the opinion that voom is the best thing since sliced bread. All you voomers know the flaws too... don't deny! I just think that $15 is a lot of money. Let's examine pricing....

$9.95 rental (add an extra $5 per receiver)
$39.95 - $79.95 programming (or lack of programming)
$?? Pay Per View (in the distant future)
$?? DVR (in the future)

Now lets estimate....

VaVa Voom package $79, Rental for 2 receivers $14, 3 PPV movies on channel ? ($9), DVR ($39.99)... $141 per month before taxes. REAL CHEAP! HOW WILL VOOM SURVIVE!

 

[occammd]

I'd pay $19.95/month, 1 yr basic commitment

 

[slick1ru2]

I think you are going to be hard pressed to add a $29.99 lease fee and have a large number of people sign on.

Everyone keeps talking about cost of the receiver as if retail and wholesale are so close. Maxtor's 320 GB HD is going for $289 Retail. Wholesale is probably what? $225? And what will the price be at production time? New technology makes a downward spiral in price so fast these days. $175? And, we are not taking new technology, but a new combination of existing technology. On top of which I am sure they are going to choose some 3rd world, $5/hour worker location to make them. I would expect this box is going to cost them,whenever it actually goes into mass production, to be under $500 to produce with a volume discount.

So we are talking an initial sales price markup of probably 50%+ on top of a monthly PVR fee even if you don't lease it. If they do lease it, they still own it so in a 2 year $19.99/month lease deal they have mostly gotten what the box is worth just from the lease fee, not to mention the profit in the programming fee. And when returned it can be refurbed and shipped back out.

If they do come out initally with some outragous sales price/monthly fee, I would think they will change the deal in a few months ala the current lease deal after they find its going over like a lead balloon.

 

[Eric_C]

I think they are all too high.

DVR's are NOT exspensive to manufactuer, like OTA HD Recievers they are cash cows at those kinds of costs. HD Recievers at 499+ are ridiculous unless there are massive licensing fee's.

An HD reciever is no more than a 'souped' up DVD player with an antenna versus a disc as far as the technology side of things.

I wouldn't pay 29.95 for anything more, my bill is already 90 bux, thats 1100 a year to watch TV!

I would pay a reasonable amount for the box itself and a nominal sub fee, 9.95 or MAYBE 14.95...if the box seems to be a combo of the current Roku unit and a traditional DVR then I would pay possibly upto 400 dollars for the unit if it does all the features of the Roku plus the DVR portion.

I don't like contracts or commitments unless the deal is killer, its the main reason I subscribed to Voom in the first place is because of no commitment. I think this type of thing keeps a company more honest knowing we can all leave in mass numbers at the drop of a hat.

 

[GadgetRick]

Premature...

I still say it's rather premature to talk about what we'd pay for a DVR since we really don't know what this DVR will be. Sure, we've heard rumors as to what it might include but we really don't know so how can we talk about what we'd pay for it?

Along those lines how do we know they're going to repackage old technology? We just don't know so saying that's what they're doing is also premature.

Not trying to defend Voom or anyone else, just pointing out the facts we DO know...which aren't many.

The Rickster

 

[andrzej]

...
Let's examine pricing....

$9.95 rental (add an extra $5 per receiver)
$39.95 - $79.95 programming (or lack of programming)
$?? Pay Per View (in the distant future)
$?? DVR (in the future)

Now lets estimate....

VaVa Voom package $79, Rental for 2 receivers $14, 3 PPV movies on channel ? ($9), DVR ($39.99)... $141 per month before taxes. REAL CHEAP! HOW WILL VOOM SURVIVE!

rex,
nobody is forcing you get Voom or even buy a TV set. It is also not guaranteed by any law that Voom service should be delivered to you at the price that you like. If you think that Voom is too expensive than it is too expensive for you and you are not Vooming. For others, it may be a good deal, and they are willing to pay the price. Whether something is cheap or expensive can only be judged in relative terms.

 

[rexoverbey]

nobody is forcing you get Voom or even buy a TV set

What are you talking about? I already have Voom and an HDTV, and as long as you have the attitude that you will pay anything. They like people like you and will continue to raise you rate. People like me keep the rates down .

 

[Ken F]

I don't buy into that technology costing that much. The only part that is expensive is that you need a bigger hard drive to record hd on to. Now you can buy a $200 gig hd for neerly nothing.

DVR's are NOT exspensive to manufactuer, like OTA HD Recievers they are cash cows at those kinds of costs. HD Recievers at 499+ are ridiculous unless there are massive licensing fee's.

An HD reciever is no more than a 'souped' up DVD player with an antenna versus a disc as far as the technology side of things.

If the technology doesn't cost much as you say, then why is the HDTV Tivo priced at $999, with Best Buy paying close to $750? Why does the Dish 921 HD DVR cost $999? Why does the Motorola 6208 HD DVR with a single-tuner and 80Gb hard drive cost cable companies $500+?

Let's take a look at you might find inside a VOOM DVR, if it were shipping today:

• Broadcom BCM7035 MP@HL decoder / dual PVR / graphics processor = $50-$60 (version of this in HD Tivo and Dish 921)
• AMD Geode GX2 cpu w/ ATA66, USB controllers = $50 (Geode used in Dish 921 HD DVR)
• 2 * Broadcom BCM4500/BCM3440 chipset satellite tuners @ $20/ea = $40 (one of these in current VOOM STB)
• 2 * Broadcom BCM3520 8VSB OTA tuners @ $20/ea = $40
• Western Digital WD2500 250Gb drive = $175 (same model in HD Tivo)
• Silicon Image HDCP/DVI transmitter = $8-$10
• 64Mb 400MHz DDR graphics / system memory = $15
• 64Mb MSystems DiskOnChip Millenium Plus flash memory = $50 (32Mb version in current VOOM STB)
• 10/100 ethernet controller = $3-$5

The chips and hard drive above total ~$450. The prices quoted above for Broadcom and AMD are for orders in 10,000 unit quantities; orders with fewer units may cost more.

This doesn't include the design or production cost of the logic board. It doesn't include the design or production cost of the remote and external chassis. It doesn't include the assembly, packaging, and shipment costs. It doesn't include cost of the power supply. It doesn't include the cost of the component, DVI/HDMI, s-video, and composite connectors on the box, nor does it include the cost of the bundled cables. It doesn't include the cost ($10-$40?) to license the whole-home DVR technology from Ucentric.

Moreover, it doesn't include the cost to develop the software. They can't go to Best Buy and buy software to run their box. It costs money to pay a team of software developers ($50-$70k per year each) to write and debug software; the price needs to cover efforts to update and improve the software.

This price also doesn't include the costs associated with supporting or marketing this particular product.

I still say it's rather premature to talk about what we'd pay for a DVR since we really don't know what this DVR will be. Sure, we've heard rumors as to what it might include but we really don't know so how can we talk about what we'd pay for it?

Rumors? VOOM has a press release, and product brochure, which I linked above, both which describe the functionality of the product. The VOOM DVR was demonstrated at CES and again this past week at NAB2004.

 

[hd_SDI_1080i]

I would spend around $500-600 ensuring that the unit had Ethernet/networking connectivity. Manufacturing costs are plummeting due to 3rd generation DSP chips and such. Spending 1k for a DVR in 2004 would be ridiculous.

Also, I would NEVER "purchase" anything (besides a cell phone) with a Motorola name on it !