Vicki said:
The Timm…I wholeheartedly agree with you and Geronimo about the necessity to correct misinformation. That approach is effective with people who either simply misunderstand the facts, or inadvertently mis-state them, or forget to state a crucial point.
But if the misinformation is coming from people bent on an agenda that uses twisted facts, half-truths, and omissions to promote their views, no amount of reason or correction is going to change that. There comes a point of diminishing returns, where simply trying to refute the person provides more fuel and grants more exposure.
I'm not suggesting debating the , ahem, "protagonists" in an attempt to change they're minds but to correct their misinformation for others who may be researching Voom and/or be new to the forums. If unchallenged, the statements may simply appear true.
Vicki said:
I must, however, disagree with you in your second post. I don’t think Bradley was taunting anyone. He simply put forward his view of the value of continuing debate with people who seem to have some other agenda, and aren’t necessarily concerned with the facts.
Regarding your last post, I’m sure those addressed in the topic know who they are, regardless of the exact word used to describe the behavior, and I believe that you know that.
Taunting may have been too strong a word (I don't think so), but he was definitely looking for a response -- it was a question that was posed, not simply a presentation of his views. I think we're fast approaching the point where the question needs to asked, "What do we gain by debating what we gain by debating those who are simply protagonists?".
And my applause goes to those "protagonists" for recognizing who they are, but I still don't know who he was talking about. If he is referring to the proponent/champion/advocate awkward usage portion of the definition, does his question also include those who are Voom's cheerleaders as well as the trolls? I was assuming he meant trolls, but that was just an assumption. Does his answer, "nothing", apply to what we gain by debating hyper-pro-Voomers as well? I think a main purpose of these boards is to spread information, and that we all have to share the responsibility of ensuring that as much of that info as possible is accurate. Debating those who present misinformation, opinions as facts, and/or outright lies is an important part of that responsibility IMO, even if at times it feels as if it's accomplishing nothing.
Vicki said:
As to what type of person starts a thread such as this…my opinion is that it is one who is informed, puts forth the truth as he knows it (warts and all)…without omitting pertinent facts, is willing and interested in engaging in thoughtful, productive conversation, and doesn’t rely largely on speculation to convey his opinions. A far cry from the true meaning of “protagonist”.
I assure you I wasn't suggesting that bradley is a protagonist -- or any other character from a play (
). I was just flipping his script on who "lament's on such an issue?" -- having a little fun, which is how I hope bradley took it. I really do enjoy his posts.
Vicki said:
Life and language evolve. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. This evolution is particularly noticeable with language nowadays, but all the dictionaries I checked still utilize the original meaning of protagonist as the first definition. Some list the current usage as a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th definition. The one I happened to link to also notes the “usage problem”…but they ALL first reference the true meaning of the word… which comes from the Greek for “actor, combatant”, frequently the anti-hero.
Just to be entirely accurate, the definition you linked to is printed below. While it does talk about actors, the only mention of "combatant", as you mentioned, is in the
origin of the word --
not the definition. And under "Usage Note", it seems to me to say that most experts agree that it should
not be used to describe the "anti-hero", and that other words (antagonist, troll (
), villain) should be used instead.
dictionary.com said:
2 entries found for protagonist.
pro·tag·o·nist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-tg-nst)
n.
The main character in a drama or other literary work.
In ancient Greek drama, the first actor to engage in dialogue with the chorus, in later dramas playing the main character and some minor characters as well.
A leading or principal figure.
The leader of a cause; a champion.
Usage Problem. A proponent; an advocate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Greek prtagnists : prto-, proto- + agnists, actor, combatant (from agnizesthai, to contend, from agn, contest, from agein, to drive, lead. See ag- in Indo-European Roots).]
Usage Note: The protagonist of a Greek drama was its leading actor; therefore, there could be only one in a play. The question for speakers of modern English is whether a drama can have more than one protagonist. When members of the Usage Panel were asked “How many protagonists are there in Othello?” the great majority answered “One” and offered substitutes such as antagonist, villain, principal, and deuteragonist to describe Desdemona and Iago. Nevertheless, the word has been used in the plural to mean “important actors” or “principal characters” since at least 1671 when John Dryden wrote “Tis charg'd upon me that I make debauch'd persons... my protagonists, or the chief persons of the drama.” Some writers may prefer to confine their use of protagonist to refer to a single actor or chief participant, but it is pointless to insist that the broader use is wrong. ·The use of protagonist to refer to a proponent has become common only in the 20th century and may have been influenced by a misconception that the first syllable of the word represents the prefix pro-, “favoring.” In sentences such as He was an early protagonist of nuclear power, this use is likely to strike many readers as an error and can usually be replaced by advocate or proponent.
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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
protagonist
n 1: a person who backs a politician or a team etc.; "all their supporters came out for the game"; "they are friends of the library" [syn: supporter, champion, admirer, booster, friend] 2: the principal character in a work of fiction [syn: agonist]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
The winner could have his or her own little thread and carry on as they wish. Even newcomers probably understand "troll" and could view it or not view it, as they wish. 
It would be easier than hitting the ignore button! 
Vicki
