625 + HDTV = YouTube?

[CowboyDren]

I just bought a 37" LCD last week, and it's freakin' awesome, especially watching 3D cartoons like "Cars." I have three kids under 7, and we watch a lot of stuff like that. I also live on top of a hill in the 'burbs with EXCELLENT OTA HD reception.

My problem is that I have a 625 DVR, which I'm pretty fond of, except that it's only 480i/1.33:1. As long as I'm watching an SD recording in an un-zoomed state, it's no worse than looking at my old 31" tube. Well, sometimes it is worse (pixellation, jaggies, etc.) But if I zoom in on something like "Stargate" or "The Closer," which are broadcast in 16:9 with letterboxing, EVERY defect and artifact comes through in...High Definition. It's like watching a crappy clip on YouTube with the player in full-screen.

The question is this: with a new HD receiver, set at 720p/1.78:1, will my problems with pixellation and jaggies be reduced? I know the source is still 480i/1.33, but I think my TV's scaler is what's being the real crux. Is it worth leasing a new unit and paying $20/mo for more programming or at least a $6/mo HD enabler fee? I'd really like to hear from somebody who's been in my shoes and bought a TV before upgrading service, but I'll listen to whatever I get.

 

[cparker]

If you're not noticing the pixellation and junk on OTA programs, AND if the antenna is direct to the TV, then I would hazard a guess here that your TV does HD just fine. I went from a 625 to a 622 and the new TV (42" Panasonic plasma) was hooked to the 625 for months before we finally upgraded the satellite service to HD.

In my OPINION (and I have no data to back this up.... just opinion based on observation which I know is subjective)... I think the 622 displays SD programming on my TV better than the 625 did.

If you play DVDs and those look OK, and your OTA looks OK, but your recorded content from the 625 does NOT look OK. Then I'd have to say it's either a setting on the 625, the TV, or possibly in how they are connected OR those 2 pieces (the TV and 625) are just not playing nice together. If I remember right, your best connection on the 625 to your TV is s-video. Your new HD LCD probably has component and HDMI connection options on it.

As I said, it's my opinion that my picture quality improved when I upgraded the satellite receiver. It's connected HDMI. Looks the same to me using either HDMI or component
so I am opting for less cables at this point.

Look at the numbers for the upgrade cost. Look at your plan. Would the DVR Advantage plan work for you? When all is said and done and AFTER the rebates run out, I'm still not paying $20 a month MORE than I was before for HD.

 

[Kaydigi]

Nothing will improve the E* SD PQ on my LCD except for watching the SD version of a show on it's HD feed. The SD channels are bit starved.

For example, the show PTI on ESPN and ESPN HD is an SD only show. When watching it on the SD feed it's a blurry mess and there is color bleeding all over the place. When watching the same SD show on ESPN HD (the show is still SD), it looks very good.

Before you take a 18 month commitment with Dish. Have you seen if FIOS is in your area?

 

[aperry]

Part of the improvement you saw was almost certainly going from a composite (yellow video wire) or s-video connection on your 625 to the HDMI connection you're using now.

It should also be noted that some HDTV's do SD better than others. I remember when I purchased mine last year that the one I wanted had a horrible SD picture, so I went with option 2. Because for the next several years, we'll almost assuredly still be watching a ton of SD content.

 

[cparker]

yeah one of the things I payed attention to when choosing my plasma is that this model (and a few others) did noticeably better with SD display than other TVs did.

 

[Jim S.]

I have a 622 with a 21" HD monitor. I can get better SD pictures if I watch via composite video, letting the monitor do the scaling and turning the contrast and sharpness way down, than if I watch the SD upscaled to 1080 by the 622 and fed through the HDMI cable.

 

[mattopia]

I also think it depends on the channels, and possibly even the program

I did a side-by-side comparison of channels between cable and E* before disconnecting the cable. On HD, it was usually a toss-up. On SD, cable and DISH both looked pretty crappy. As far as comparison though, on Comedy Central I recall DISH looking better. On G4, Olivia Munn looked much better on cable than on DISH. I'm sure they compress some channels more than others.

My local channels look REALLY bad on DISH in SD. No HD locals over DISH here yet, despite being a big market.... I'm glad I can pick them up in HD over the air just fine, otherwise I would be miserable.

 

[gck105]

Don't set your TV to zoom. You are basically taking a magnifying glass to the picture, so you are more likely see defects and make the picture look worse. If you watch letterbox shows in letterbox, it doesn't look that bad.

 

[M Sparks]

Yeah, when you get a widescreen TV, one of the first thing that happens is that you grow to HATE letterboxing. We watch a lot of TCM and it drives me nuts. Either look at a tiny window, or blow it up and make it look like crap.

You will also gradually find that a lot of your older DVDs aren't anamorphic and suffer from the same problem.

It's not your 625, it's not your TV. It's the fact that you are watching something with only 360 lines of resolution, and then you are magnifying the digital artifacts that are already there.

 

[CowboyDren]

If you're not noticing the pixellation and junk on OTA programs, AND if the antenna is direct to the TV, then I would hazard a guess here that your TV does HD just fine. I went from a 625 to a 622 and the new TV (42" Panasonic plasma) was hooked to the 625 for months before we finally upgraded the satellite service to HD.

Yeah, OTA HD is great, and the picture from my [cheap] upscaling DVD player is quite good at 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Even digital 480i OTA broadcasts are fine. I was warned by C|net that this TV does not play nicely with analog sources. I have TONS of inputs, but the 625 only has V, SV, and RF outputs. The RF output is the easiest on the eyes, though I can pick up a little herringbone (I need an attenuator?), and the black via RF sucks.

I need to give the TV a proper dial-in, but I don't think that'll keep Olivia Munn's face from looking like a Monet-in-Motion. They way overcompress G4 and FoxNews, but SciFi looks fine, thankfully, until I zoom. I bought a widescreen TV so that I wouldn't have to look at letterboxing, thanks very much.

Nothing will improve the E* SD PQ on my LCD except for watching the SD version of a show on it's HD feed. The SD channels are bit starved.

For example, the show PTI on ESPN and ESPN HD is an SD only show. When watching it on the SD feed it's a blurry mess and there is color bleeding all over the place. When watching the same SD show on ESPN HD (the show is still SD), it looks very good.

Before you take a 18 month commitment with Dish. Have you seen if FIOS is in your area?

That's the answer I was looking for, actually. Most of the channels I watch have or will have an HD sibling within months, and I'll probably only watch HD channels anyway. FiOS looks neat, but I'm not interested in running more wires from the pole to my house. I've been wireless (TV and phone) for over 4 years now, and don't plan on going back. And it isn't available in my area.

I called Dish last night, and for $180 on my bill, they'll send me a 622, credit me back $100 immediately, and give me 6 months of AT200+HD for no additional fees. For the following 12 mos, I think the $20 HD package may be worth it, but if not, $6/mo HD enabling fee will be no harder than the $5/mo for locals that I won't be paying for any more. We'll see.

I'm off to find the physical location (satellite) of my favorite channels and a rollout chart...

 

[Kaydigi]

That's the answer I was looking for, actually. Most of the channels I watch have or will have an HD sibling within months, and I'll probably only watch HD channels anyway. FiOS looks neat, but I'm not interested in running more wires from the pole to my house. I've been wireless (TV and phone) for over 4 years now, and don't plan on going back. And it isn't available in my area.

I called Dish last night, and for $180 on my bill, they'll send me a 622, credit me back $100 immediately, and give me 6 months of AT200+HD for no additional fees. For the following 12 mos, I think the $20 HD package may be worth it, but if not, $6/mo HD enabling fee will be no harder than the $5/mo for locals that I won't be paying for any more. We'll see.

I'm off to find the physical location (satellite) of my favorite channels and a rollout chart...

One warning, TNT-HD, TBS-HD, Discovery HD, History HD, and A&E HD all stretch their SD programming. There are others, but I can't remember off hand.

 

[CowboyDren]

Well, one of my zoom options is to "letterbox" (actually bookend) a wide image into a standard image, so I think that'll work to my advantage...

Thanks for the inputs, guys!