Comments from a newbie to FTA

[Keith Brannen]

Have used a variety of types, from straight pieces of aluminum I had, curved pieces, and round pieces. The last two came with LNB holders, the most important aspect, some that I modified to fit on other pieces.
Also used aluminum spacers to adjust height on flat pieces.

97, 103, & 110 (c).

99 & 105.

 

[k4otl]

Update! There's a house literally 1/2 mile from me that I'd walk past when I'd take walks after work, and noticed a large C band dish tucked around the corner. Walked up to the owner yesterday and he readily said I could have it haha, even mentioned there's another like it at his parents a few miles away. Got it back in one piece to my house today, it's a 10 footer, the "eye" of the actuator arm broke off but hey, it's free. He even still had the old Drake analog receiver and gave it to me, it turns on, that's all I've messed with thus far. Dish isn't dead nuts true but a string test shows it's <1/2" out, there's some minor spots in the mesh (a holly tree was slowly growing through it and next to it) but it's pretty decent actually. Cut the pole down right above the concrete too. The homeowner had it since it was new, and I don't think has touched it in 20+ years.

 

[k4otl]

General question (it's hard to find info on some of these topics):
- Has anyone tried putting a sidecar Ku lnb on a mesh C band dish, if so, how well does it work? (Anyone tried putting aluminum foil on the mesh to help out Ku reception?) I haven't begun to prep putting up the 10' dish but I'm just pondering things right now
- Does anyone have any experience in receiving the High SR DVB-S2 feeds on C band with a sidecar C band LNB? Like getting the 101(or 99) mux as a sidecar from a dish fixed on 105 for example? I'm shooting for 105 first when I do get the dish up, and just looking for other's experiences. My dish will be fixed at the beginning, baby steps (I'm also cheap).
- Does anyone ever stop fiddling with their SAT system? I mean seriously, will I end up with 40 dishes at the end of this? Is there an Antennas Anonymous?

 

[comfortably_numb]

- Does anyone ever stop fiddling with their SAT system? I mean seriously, will I end up with 40 dishes at the end of this? Is there an Antennas Anonymous?

"My name's David and I'm a satellite TV addict."

 

[cyberham]

...- Does anyone ever stop fiddling with their SAT system?...

No. Why would you? If all you want to do is watch TV, then get cable. Glad you're having a thrill exploring.

 

[k4otl]

No. Why would you? If all you want to do is watch TV, then get cable. Glad you're having a thrill exploring.

Sometimes kinda lol. Of course "getting cable" is actually harder to do these days, "they" want everything to go streaming. I've got 3 TV antennas on top of the house, it's more fun getting more OTA (and FTA) channels than watching sometimes (although I watch alot of TV it feels like sometimes). Also I'm cheap so there you go. Honestly with my current setup, I probably use FTA more for the radio feeds than TV. Ku FTA is no replacement for OTA, but a good supplement IMO. For radio it's fantastic. That's how I started, I told myself all I wanted was the 101W radio services, and it's grown from there.

 

[comfortably_numb]

I told myself all I wanted was the 101W radio services

That's how my KU project started for me also. Of course those radio feeds were on 103 then, but they were my main goal. Then I got hooked on the wild feeds.

 

[k4otl]

"My name's David and I'm a satellite TV addict."

Me: "Hello my name is Nick and I'm addicted to antennas"

Others: "How many do you have?"

Me: "Not enough"

Others: [Sees how many] "Oh my..."

 

[one_db_compression]

General question (it's hard to find info on some of these topics):
- Has anyone tried putting a sidecar Ku lnb on a mesh C band dish, if so, how well does it work? (Anyone tried putting aluminum foil on the mesh to help out Ku reception?) I haven't begun to prep putting up the 10' dish but I'm just pondering things right now
- Does anyone have any experience in receiving the High SR DVB-S2 feeds on C band with a sidecar C band LNB? Like getting the 101(or 99) mux as a sidecar from a dish fixed on 105 for example? I'm shooting for 105 first when I do get the dish up, and just looking for other's experiences. My dish will be fixed at the beginning, baby steps (I'm also cheap).

Optimally on paper, gain at Ku frequencies is about 8 to 9 dB higher versus C frequencies on that 10-footer. This is 48 to 49 versus 39 to 40 dB "ish". The -3 dB beamwidth at Ku is probably about 0.5 degrees. As a result when you're off-axis, your signal strength is trivially going to collapse by 6 to 8 dB, turning that 10-footer into effectively a 4-to-6-footer. If you want to lock on signals that need a heavy C/N ratio, you need to be peaked as much as possible on the main lobe. This is independent of the band. Higher-order modulation schemes require more signal energy, period. Being off-axis on a reflector geometry that was not designed to accommodate that type of configuration will incur fast signal roll-off. When you compare radiation envelope patterns for TX-rated parabolic antennae for the equivalent bands for terrestrial microwave, it becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly.

https://www.andrew.com/globalassets/digizuite/47018-7435-7-17-19-pdf.pdf for a HX10-11W (10' reflector for 11 GHz use)

https://www.andrew.com/globalassets/digizuite/47003-7420-7-17-19-pdf.pdf for HX10-4 (10' reflector for 4.5 GHz use)

Armed with a receiver that provides C/N in dB, a DVB-S/S2 bitrate calculator, and the technical parameters for your reflector, you can determine in a few seconds how many dB of signal you are above or below a locking threshold for any satellite signal in any location in a footprint.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.

 

[k4otl]

So when I got the 10' dish, the owner had me take his Dishnet dish (19"x25" approx) and I had the idea that since 101W is so strong on the Hughes dish, why not try it? It took me like 30 mins, I mounted the dish to the j pole that came with it, to a block of wood, lined it up using my other dishes as a guide, guessed the elevation, slapped an LNB on it with no skew and BAM! got the Muzak mux! Didn't adjust anything! Talk about luck. Pretty good signal level too, I tweaked the skew and brought up the quality somewhat. And I've got pictures this time! I included pics of the 10 footer too.

 

[k4otl]

Alright, I've set the pole and letting the concrete cure. I've started taking a harder look at the polar mount on this dish, and I'm a little concerned. The "top" pivot attachment point is a bent plate (I should have looked harder before we took the dish down...), the "bottom" pivot point doesn't attach to anything... I've attached pictures. The actuator was attached to the dish, I took it off before I loaded into the truck. It kinda looks like it was just the top pivot point and the actuator holding the dish there. I don't believe I've broken anything (well actually the actuator "eye" bolt broke off but I'll get to that later).
This dish also doesn't appear to have a clear declination adjustment. Thankfully, I only moved it 1/2 mile but any ideas here? I was going to start out with it as a fixed dish anyway, but the bottom L bracket with the bolt (that looks broke off, and is on the right side of the pics) has me a little worried. My (limited) understanding with polar mounts is that there's two points of support for rotation, and a third to stabilize (actuator). Also, I don't see any markings on the dish but the LNB says Channelmaster. Any ideas?

PS: Forgive the weird angles, as you can see my method of not loading the mesh/ribs is setting the polar mount on the tire while I took pictures.

 

[arlo]

A side view of the mount as it would be put on the pole might show the current shape of it a little better.
But to give you some brain food. If you intend on motorizing the mount with an actuator. A few things for thought.
Declination for a fixed mount aimed at one sat. isn't a thing. Just that your latitude angle and actual dish face angle (from vertical) will be a touch different.

I edited a little doodle that helped another guy out. So take a peek at your mount and compare a few things. I take it your dish is a prime focus setup with the feed assembly at the dish center and not offset at the rim (Dishnet, Direc style).

You'll want the pivots to be slop free (in the case of a steerable dish mount) so that the dish will track the arc accurately and repeatable.
No worn bolt shanks, no worn out bushings. Wobble free. Represented by the black arrow.
Also the pivot brackets need to be checked for no side to side bends. So with the mount on the pole. They will be in line with the sky and ground (an imaginary or real, measured line going straight down the pole in the ground. No side to side angle difference.

The black line across the dish face will be referenced to the black arrow when all setup.
That will establish zero declination. For a fixed setup aimed at one sat. The dish face will be lowered. An angle from a site like Dishpointer derived per your actual latitude. Remember. With zero declination and all setup. The dish will be looking above the Clarke belt where sats. are parked out there some 22k miles in space.
Two ways. A dish with no declination adjustment on a fixed sat. Latitude angle setup (black arrow). Add the declination degrees in the mount. With a declination adjustment, add those degrees to the latitude angle with the latitude adjustment bolts tightened.
The dish will tilt down from the sky a touch after.
You would do that with the red arrow declination adjustment. The design and location of it may be different. The concept is the same.

If the dish was steerable but you don't have the old actuator to keep it from flopping on the pivots. A few el-cheapo ratchet straps might get you in the ballpark until you can figure out a solution.

If you can get that far. Cool. Single satellites get boring. The real fun is when you can scan the arc.....accurately and repeatable.
I enjoy bringing stuff back from the dead. At least a touch better if they are still twitching. The other guys can pipe in.
Good Luck!

 

[a33]

...
I'm a little concerned. The "top" pivot attachment point is a bent plate (I should have looked harder before we took the dish down...), the "bottom" pivot point doesn't attach to anything... I've attached pictures.
...
This dish also doesn't appear to have a clear declination adjustment.
....
but the bottom L bracket with the bolt (that looks broke off, and is on the right side of the pics) has me a little worried. My (limited) understanding with polar mounts is that there's two points of support for rotation, and a third to stabilize (actuator).

Yes, the bent plate should normally not be bent. :-(

The bottom L bracket would be part of the declination adjustment, and is connected to the bottom of the pivot/axis; but the part that connects the (adjustable) declination offset bolt to the dish I cannot easily see on your pictures.
The fact that it seems to be missing, looks like the cause of the bent plate.

You are right about the three points.

Repairing would be a challenge. Alas, my expertise doesn't lie there. I hope others jump in.

Greetz,
A33

 

[a33]

You can see example L-bracket declination constructions in these posts:

1. fixed to the dish ring:

Post in thread 'Can a fixed "Prime Focus" dish be converted to a movable dish?'

Apr 28, 2021

Here is a link to a video on Youtube that shows what is involved in building a polar mount for a dish of this type. Sorry it is in a foreign language and uses metric measurements but you will get the idea. You would need to purchase metal from a local shop if there is one, online if there isn't. Also a welder would be needed. You could also have the shop build it for you if you are not able. Not likely to be easy or cheap but again if it is your only option...

• FTA4PA

2.with a "pivot" to the dish ring:

T

Post in thread 'Help with 6' WSI polar mount dish setup'

May 14, 2012

I never was able to find a manual or anything like that when I installed my 6' dish. I just had to rely on pics of other people's install and that horrible exploded diagram of the dish that was included in the package. I've found that its mainly a trial and error setup for this dish. I've attached a pic of how mine is setup, so you dont have to search through the install thread for a pic.

• Thehandyone

On some dishes the adjustable L-bracket is at the bottom, on some it is at the top. Makes no difference.

Does this help?

Greetz,
A33

 

[k4otl]

You can see example L-bracket declination constructions in these posts:

1. fixed to the dish ring:

Post in thread 'Can a fixed "Prime Focus" dish be converted to a movable dish?'

Apr 28, 2021

Here is a link to a video on Youtube that shows what is involved in building a polar mount for a dish of this type. Sorry it is in a foreign language and uses metric measurements but you will get the idea. You would need to purchase metal from a local shop if there is one, online if there isn't. Also a welder would be needed. You could also have the shop build it for you if you are not able. Not likely to be easy or cheap but again if it is your only option...

• FTA4PA

2.with a "pivot" to the dish ring:

T

Post in thread 'Help with 6' WSI polar mount dish setup'

May 14, 2012

I never was able to find a manual or anything like that when I installed my 6' dish. I just had to rely on pics of other people's install and that horrible exploded diagram of the dish that was included in the package. I've found that its mainly a trial and error setup for this dish. I've attached a pic of how mine is setup, so you dont have to search through the install thread for a pic.

• Thehandyone

On some dishes the adjustable L-bracket is at the bottom, on some it is at the top. Makes no difference.

Does this help?

Greetz,
A33

This helps tremendously actually. I've got some work to do with it then, I'll take the pole mount off, straighten the plate, and figure out the bottom bracket situation. Thanks