DTS:X - Raising The Bar In Immersive Sound

[dfergie]

Looks like I wait a little longer to get a receiver with dts:X onboard, I can wait ...

 

[Ilya]

For me it's more like the wait is finally coming to an end! I am afraid I might pull the trigger on a new receiver by the end of this year.

Of course, there is never a good time to upgrade as there is always something else around the corner. But at least it looks like the most important pieces should all come together this year: full-bandwidth HDMI 2.0 (now with the 2.0a update), HDCP 2.2, the new audio formats: Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D and now DTS:X. Sure, there will be some fine-tuning done over the next year or so, but hopefully that can be addressed with a firmware update down the road. I think I will wait for the 4K Blu-ray players to be released, just to make sure that everything works together, but then it will be the decision time for me...

 

[jayn_j]

I agree Ilya. Once all those items are firmly in place and reviewed, I will upgrade the HT receiver and roll the stack down to the other rooms. However, note I said reviewed. So many first implementations come out buggy. I also don't trust the "we will provide an upgrade" promise. Been burned too often in the past.

 

[Ilya]

I also don't trust the "we will provide an upgrade" promise. Been burned too often in the past.

I totally agree. I am skeptical about any promises of a brand new feature (like DTS:X) to be added with a firmware upgrade down the road. There is no guarantee that any current DSP will be good enough to handle it adequately. I think it's better to wait for the equipment specifically designed and tested for the new feature. But I feel safer about promises regarding minor bug-fixes and fine-tuning. Reputable companies should be able to deliver on those promises. I remember how pleasantly surprised I was to continue receiving firmware upgrades for my Toshiba HD-DVD player well after it's been discontinued!

 

[Ilya]

Dave Casey, senior director, program management for DTS:X is currently answering questions at reddit AMA: redd.it/321lqz (http://t.co/XzcAvstEUy)

You can ask him a question if you want!

 

[Ilya]

Here are some interesting questions and answers:

Q: How would this flexible speaker layout work in the real world? Is this the receiver that would map the speakers in a 3D space via microphone measurement or are they predefined positions by the AV manufacturer/DTS?

A: Maybe 3d microphones, maybe an app, maybe an onscreen display similar to how an AVR is setup today? It's up to manufactures how they might help the consumer capture speaker locations. At DTS we're all about making immersive audio easier for the consumer. We expect in the coming years many more creative methods will emerge to accomplish this.

Q: Will DTS:X support using Dolby-Enabled (up firing) speakers for height channels?

A: DTS:X is about unbound sound. It will work on any speaker layout, including up-firing speakers but these by no means are required.

 

[Ilya]

Q: What is a minimal required speaker setup?

A: You'll hear a great surround sound experience with a 5.1 or 7.1 layout but to get the full immersive experience I recommend some layout which includes height speakers. You could even transform your 7.1 speakers into a 5.1 layout and use the two extra speakers for height.

 

[Ilya]

Q: What Hollywood studios will support DTS:X? Many of them used DTS HD on Blu-ray in the past but some of them already released Blu-rays with Dolby Atmos soundtracks.

A: More than 10 studios are currently evaluating DTS:X. As soon as they're ready to announce content we will be there to support them.


Q: I've read that DTS:X is backward compatible with DTS-HDMA. Does it means that a DTS:X track is made of:
DTS Core element + DTS-HD MA residuals + DTS:X residuals
Then, what does exactly the DTS:X residuals contain? And what kind of bitrate are we talking about?

A: Deep tech! I like it. The DTS:X residuals include discrete objects, beds and of course metadata. With this we can reconstruct a lossless object-based, INCREDIBLE experience for DTS:X playback or DTS-HDMA playback.

 

[dfergie]

A link to the dts:X page, ...
http://listen.dts.com/pages/dts-x?tracking=DTSX

 

[dfergie]

High Def Digest's Guide ...
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...highdef-digests-dtsx-home-theater-guide/22341

Scott Wilkinson - video from Home Theater Geeks
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-avs-forum-podcasts/1966185-dts-x-unveiled.html

 

[Ilya]

High Def Digest's Guide ...
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...highdef-digests-dtsx-home-theater-guide/22341

Scott Wilkinson - video from Home Theater Geeks
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-avs-forum-podcasts/1966185-dts-x-unveiled.html

Some very good info!

 

[dfergie]

 

[dfergie]

Onkyo has 2 new receivers coming out with DTS: X
TX-NR646 7.2-Ch Network A/V Receiver $699
TX-NR747 7.2-Ch Network A/V Receiver $999
Learn About the Onkyo Receivers
that Support DTS:X


TX-NR646

7.2-Channel Network A/V Receiver

• 170 W per Channel
• Hi-Current Amp Design for Authentic Sound Reproduction
• HDMI 2.0a & HDCP 2.2 for 4K UltraHD
• Built-in Bluetooth & Wi-Fi® with Pandora, Spotify, and AirPlay

TX-NR747
THX Certified
7.2-Channel Network A/V Receiver

• THX Certified
• 175 W per Channel
• Hi-Current Amp Design for Authentic Sound Reproduction
• HDMI 2.0a & HDCP 2.2 for 4K UltraHD
• Built-in Bluetooth & Wi-Fi® with Pandora, Spotify, and AirPlay

http://dtsx.onkyousa.com/

 

[Ilya]

That's great to see DTS:X support under $1000, but 7 channels is kind of limiting for DTS:X. I would prefer 9.

 

[jayn_j]

That's great to see DTS:X support under $1000, but 7 channels is kind of limiting for DTS:X. I would prefer 9.

Cool from a technical standpoint. From a practical one, I have trouble finding movies that even use 7 channels in their audio mix. Heck there are whole genres of films that are still mono. As much as I like The Avengers, I don't buy a sound system for just that movie.

 

[Ilya]

Cool from a technical standpoint. From a practical one, I have trouble finding movies that even use 7 channels in their audio mix. Heck there are whole genres of films that are still mono. As much as I like The Avengers, I don't buy a sound system for just that movie.

Well, with DTS:X mixed audio it won't be an issue any more. It will all be object-based now, not channel-based. So, the number of channels in the A/V receiver will now be more about your room's acoustics rather than about the source recording. Any DTS:X soundtrack can be correctly rendered to any number of channels that the A/V receiver can handle.

 

[jayn_j]

Well, with DTS:X mixed audio it won't be an issue any more. It will all be object-based now, not channel-based. So, the number of channels in the A/V receiver will now be more about your room's acoustics rather than about the source recording. Any DTS:X soundtrack can be correctly rendered to any number of channels that the A/V receiver can handle.

I guess I am getting to be a crumudgeon as I get older. This is going to depend on how quickly production companies embrace DTS-X encoding. History says it will only occur on the summer blockbusters and will roll out slowly over several years.

If producers can't be bothered to budget for channel based surround, I can't imagine they will invest in object based sound which is likely to be more complicated and costly.

As I said, The Avengers will be DTS-X encoded. Everything else, not so much.

 

[Ilya]

Basically you are saying you are not ready for DTS:X yet. And that's fine. I am not fully ready yet either. Though I am a bit more optimistic: I think DTS:X along with Dolby Atmos will dominate new releases in 2-3 years. Perhaps even sooner in the Ultra-HD Blu-ray format.

However, if I were to buy a new DTS:X receiver now (and I just might, within the next few months), then I would be looking for more channels than 7. Here is why.
My current home theater setup is 7.1. And it's not because "more is always better", but rather for some practical reasons. 5.1 would've been sufficient for my small home theater room, but it doesn't work due to the room layout: the entrance in the corner prevents putting rear speakers in the corners. The 7.1 speaker setup works way better for my room.
The main and the most immediate advantage of going with DTS:X (or Dolby Atmos for that matter) is adding the vertical dimension. So, my plan would be to keep my current 7.1 setup and to add 2-4 speakers for height (either in the ceiling or just two speakers above the main ones - not sure yet.) For that I would need at least 9.1 or perhaps even 11.1.

Basically, if you are fine with 5.1 for surround now, then you might be fine with 7.1 for DTS:X, but if your current setup is 7.1 or 7.2 and you want to keep that, you would need additional amplified channels in order to add the vertical dimension.

 

[jayn_j]

That was not what I was saying. I am probably shopping for a new receiver next spring after the CES intros.

What I am saying is that all too many movies are still mixed as mono or simple stereo. My current theater receiver is 7.1. I experimented with 7 speakers, but dropped back to 5.1 because of room issues and the fact that very few movies benefited from the extra 2 channels. I have the dipoles, but haven't found it worth the effort to build the necessary brackets. My theater is strange. curtained off on one side and that speaker would need to have some sort of bracket hung from the ceiling.

My point was that outside of the summer blockbusters, sound editors are unlikely to get the budget to do any sort of fancy spacial processing. Mono will be the same no matter how many channels you have available. Heck, more movies had surround info encoded 25 years ago than do now.

 

[dfergie]

I'll bite the bullet & go for more also ...