Echostar prepares potential bankruptcy filing

[HipKat]

The lack of subscribers currently masks their poor spectrum holdings. If they were to really take off I don't see how the network could hold up under any sort of stress. With the small amounts of low band n71 and n29 for range, speeds would be barley usable at a distance. I think they only have 5 or 10 MHz of each in most markets. n70 and n66 can give you a few hundred megabits, but in highly crowded areas that may not cut it they get a huge influx of subscribers. and when on AT&T and T-Mobile, I would assume they are deprioritized.

So bad that Elon wants it bad enough to try and use the FCC against Dish to get it

 

[EarDemon]

Dish's mid band offerings are pretty weak and pathetic compared to the massive amount of n41 T-Mobile has and the massive amount of n77 c-band Verizon has. And to a lesser extent, the combo of c-band and DoD AT&T has, hope that 50 MHz of 4.9 n79 AT&T is poised to get makes a huge difference.

Shouldn't even be having this discussion. If the FCC had any sort of backbone they would have forced Dish to give up their spectrum for sitting on it for so long. Dish's n71 should go to T-Mobile, and the other three bands should be put up for auction. Not sure if it's true or not but supposedly Dish has licenses for mmWave that they still have yet to deploy anywhere. If that the case, they should lose it.

I fail to see how in any reality Boost is in any way, shape or form competitive or will be competitive with the other three. They are the new US Cellular.

 

[b4pjoe]

So bad that Elon wants it bad enough to try and use the FCC against Dish to get it

And now after his breakup from Trump I expect the FCC to drop their investigation.

 

[Juan]

And now after his breakup from Trump I expect the FCC to drop their investigation.

Might just be a "show"

 

[fmj77]

Sorry, Elon, Boost IS the Nationwide 5G service.
Stick to Satellites and fix your rockets

LOL. Boost is a joke.

 

[HipKat]

LOL. Boost is a joke.

Regardless, they're still on Dish's 5G Network.
Would it be weird for you if Dish DID end up buying DTV?

 

[Juan]

Regardless, they're still on Dish's 5G Network.
Would it be weird for you if Dish DID end up buying DTV?

Do you think Charlie is mad at his kids and wants to pass away their inheritance before he dies?

 

[fmj77]

Regardless, they're still on Dish's 5G Network.
Would it be weird for you if Dish DID end up buying DTV?

There are dozens of other MVNOs that offer way better value than Boost.

 

[HipKat]

Do you think Charlie is mad at his kids and wants to pass away their inheritance before he dies?

Hardly

 

[HipKat]

There are dozens of other MVNOs that offer way better value than Boost.

I'm not a fan of the whole Boost thing. I think it's a waste of money, just like holding onto the spectrum is a waste, but I also know you, nor I nor anyone else on here, have a clue what Charlie will do or what will happen with Dish.
I know he's a hell of a lot smarter than any of us.
I also know he still believes he will own DTV one day, confidently

 

[fmj77]

I'm not a fan of the whole Boost thing. I think it's a waste of money, just like holding onto the spectrum is a waste, but I also know you, nor I nor anyone else on here, have a clue what Charlie will do or what will happen with Dish.
I know he's a hell of a lot smarter than any of us.
I also know he still believes he will own DTV one day, confidently

Both DTV and Dish are bleeding customers and cash. I don't see how either will be around in the next few years.

 

[rvvaquero]

I don't see how either will be around in the next few years.

Folks been saying this ever since I joined this forum over 13 years ago. And, yet.

 

[Yespage]

There are dozens of other MVNOs that offer way better value than Boost.

Maybe as good as values, but I've been paying $25 a month for unlimited with Boost, and was able to add-on $5 or $10 monthly fee when in Canada to have access north of the border (obviously not on Boost's network). Now all the other companies offer similar programs as Boost.

Boost isn't a miracle worker, but it has worked just fine. Dish's issue is they aren't good at advertising.

 

[b4pjoe]

Folks been saying this ever since I joined this forum over 13 years ago. And, yet.

It takes a while to get to zero.

In the 13 years leading up to 2023, DIRECTV lost an estimated 13 million subscribers, according to a Medium article. Dish Network lost approximately eight million subscribers between 2014 and 2023, according to Statista.

DIRECTV:

• Estimated to have lost 13 million subscribers in the last 8 years (from 2015 to 2023).
  • Had roughly 25 million subscribers at one point, more than any satellite or cable operator, according to a Medium article.
    
    
  • In 2023, DirecTV lost 1.8 million customers, according to Leichtman Research Group.

DISH Network:

• Lost approximately 8 million subscribers between 2014 and 2023, according to Statista.
  • Dish's subscriber base peaked in 2013 at 14.06 million according to a Forbes article.
    
    
  • In 2024, Dish had 5.69 million traditional pay TV subscribers, down from about 6.47 million in the corresponding quarter of the previous year, according to Statista.

 

[Juan]

It takes a while to get to zero.

In the 13 years leading up to 2023, DIRECTV lost an estimated 13 million subscribers, according to a Medium article. Dish Network lost approximately eight million subscribers between 2014 and 2023, according to Statista.

DIRECTV:

• Estimated to have lost 13 million subscribers in the last 8 years (from 2015 to 2023).
  • Had roughly 25 million subscribers at one point, more than any satellite or cable operator, according to a Medium article.
    
    
  • In 2023, DirecTV lost 1.8 million customers, according to Leichtman Research Group.

DISH Network:

• Lost approximately 8 million subscribers between 2014 and 2023, according to Statista.
  • Dish's subscriber base peaked in 2013 at 14.06 million according to a Forbes article.
    
    
  • In 2024, Dish had 5.69 million traditional pay TV subscribers, down from about 6.47 million in the corresponding quarter of the previous year, according to Statista.

The whole industry collapsed..look at cables losses...nobody wants to pay for 200 channels they hardly watch

 

[b4pjoe]

The whole industry collapsed..look at cables losses...nobody wants to pay for 200 channels they hardly watch

No argument there.

 

[Yespage]

The whole industry collapsed..look at cables losses...nobody wants to pay for 200 channels they hardly watch

It was a convergence of multiple things. People didn't want to pay for channels they didn't want... advertisers didn't want to pay as much for commercials that could be zipped past with a DVR...among other thing. Dish is profitable still, but it's holding company isn't. That company is drowning in debt after a long bomb attempt from out of the blue to create a Cell Phone company via 5G. If they can monetize that (becoming doubtful), then this can turn around... maybe. But that needed to start years ago. And with 5G ending up not being what it was projected to be, things look bleak. But Charlie owns one more cell phone company than was expected 10 years ago, so I wouldn't bet against him... I just wouldn't leverage all too much on him. He may get out of this, but it'll be much leaner. I think the corporate side of wireless 5G data transfer never got to where it was hoped.

 

[Juan]

It was a convergence of multiple things. People didn't want to pay for channels they didn't want... advertisers didn't want to pay as much for commercials that could be zipped past with a DVR...among other thing. Dish is profitable still, but it's holding company isn't. That company is drowning in debt after a long bomb attempt from out of the blue to create a Cell Phone company via 5G. If they can monetize that (becoming doubtful), then this can turn around... maybe. But that needed to start years ago. And with 5G ending up not being what it was projected to be, things look bleak. But Charlie owns one more cell phone company than was expected 10 years ago, so I wouldn't bet against him... I just wouldn't leverage all too much on him. He may get out of this, but it'll be much leaner. I think the corporate side of wireless 5G data transfer never got to where it was hoped.

Dish isn't going away until the last satellite fails...many moons from now

 

[HipKat]

Maybe as good as values, but I've been paying $25 a month for unlimited with Boost, and was able to add-on $5 or $10 monthly fee when in Canada to have access north of the border (obviously not on Boost's network). Now all the other companies offer similar programs as Boost.

Boost isn't a miracle worker, but it has worked just fine. Dish's issue is they aren't good at advertising.

That's about to change

 

[Bruce]

Dish isn't going away until the last satellite fails...many moons from now

Not how business works, Dish TV will be unprofitable with about 2-3 Million subscribers, based on the math and the rate of current losses, about a million a year for Dish, they will hit those lower subscriber's numbers sometime in 2026.

Sling will be unprofitable sometime next year, churn is also way up, Sling sub numbers are not helped by DirecTV's lower priced packages.

When you can get all the News Channels, all the top non-sports Cable Channels, Disney+, Hulu and HBO ( MAX ) for only $35, you can see why people will subscribe to DirecTV instead of Sling.