going to new Big screen, need advice

[r royer]

Jason,
You lost me. What do these anachronisms mean and what do they do?
Rich

 

[r royer]

Jason,
I was referring to "DVI , component, & HDMI" you spoke of earlier.
Rich

 

[mfino]

The pannasonic LC14 series are a definite improvement over the LC13. If you want to watch Standard (non-hd) programming, I have found that watching trhough S-Video seems to display the best picture, then trying to use the component outs. I have not tried all the Dish Network boxes so I don't know if this is true on all boxes. However, watching HD through DVI is simply amazing. You'll truly enjoy it a 60 inch set!

DVI is Digital Video Input used for HD content ( you can also use this for your PC, and now some of the DVD players are also starting to carry it ) . Depending on your box and TV, it is primarily designed to carry a true digital Video signal without having to converting it to analog (from the box), and then converting it back to digital, once the signal reaches the TV, like Component outputs behave. *note some DVI formats are designed to carry audio, but this is where HDMI comes in*

Component Outputs are those red blue green that look like a RCA type outputs that you will see on the back of your TV. This is also used for HD content, and you will find these on all Progressive Scan DVD players. Remember that Progressive Scan will display only at 480p or 480i, and is not really considered a true HD format. This has to do primarily that DVD's are not produced in a true HD format. I believe the standard is 540p to be considered True HD. If you see HD DVD players, just remember that the DVD itself is not HD, what the player is trying to do is upconvert the signal to make it fill in a 720p or 1080i signal. SO the picture may appear smoother than a normal progressive scan DVD, it will not appear as sharp as true HD will. (you will be amazed at the difference between HD and a DVD, espeically on a 60 inch set) In any case the component cables will convert a signal to analog form over then reconvert the signal back to digital. The difference between Component and DVI varries. Sometimes you will find that there is no visual difference. ON an LCD rear projection or even a DLP, I'm pretty sure you will get a better black level with the DVI, at least that is what I've experienced.

HDMI is a format that is supposed to allow a true digital path for both Audio and Video on the same cable, and offer some form of Copy Right protection. I honestly still do not know how the copyrights are supposed to work, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you will be able to record something that is encrypted for this format. DOn't worry, we are still a few years away before this is a standard for HD. The Pannasonic you are reffereing to, has an HDMI input, and my suggestion would be to pick up the DVI to HDMI cable which will allow you to use the DVI on your NEW dish network box.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Neutron]

mfino hit it right on the head.

My TV has an HDMI input and I have to use a HDMI-DVI cable. HDMI stands for High Definition Multimedia Interface. It is fully backwards compatible with DVI.

 

[nippjas]

Good write up mfino.

The one exception to DVI being pure digital is on a CRT based display which is an analog output. DVI goes thru a Digital to Analog conversion for this type of output.

If I'm not mistaken the original HDTV format was 576p...and this is a PAL/SECAM format not NTSC or ATSC. The USA is standardized on NTSC for analog and ASTC for digital. This makes the current standard HDTV resolutions in the USA 720p and 1080i. the 540 number you saw could be a particular display's native resolution.

The encryption you discuss is present on almost all DVI and HDMI outputs...This is known as HDCP...

HDCP - What is it?


The iScan HD+ offers HDCP compliance and scaling of HD sources over DVI. What does that mean? High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a standard, developed by Intel, designed to protect digital video and audio signals transmitted over DVI connections between two HDCP-enabled devices.

A digital signal still retains perfect clarity, even after being copied an unlimited number of times. So, in order to protect copyright holders (movie studios, etc.) from having their programs copied and shared, the HDCP standard provides for the secure, encrypted transmission of digital signals. HDCP functions across DVI connections between two HDCP capable devices. The source device (such as a DVD player or HDTV tuner) encrypts the digital signal using the HDCP standard, then sends that signal over the DVI or HDMI link to the receiving device (HDTV, etc.). The receiving device decodes the signal using HDCP and uses the signal as it is allowed.

If one of your devices is HDCP compliant, but the other is not, then you cannot connect them using DVI or HDMI - you will get an error. However, you can still use the analog signal from the source device (eg: component video signal, S-video signal). HDCP does not apply to analog signals.

The FCC approved HDCP as a "Digital Output Protection Technology" on August 4th, 2004. FCC regulations will require digital output protection technologies on all digital outputs from HDTV signal demodulators as of July 1st, 2005." Source


​

Here's a good website to read about HDTV technology.

Jason

 

[Neutron]

Some people refer to 1080i as 540p, usually it's those that say you can't have HD with interlace.

 

[nippjas]

Some people refer to 1080i as 540p, usually it's those that say you can't have HD with interlace.

So what do they call 1080p?

 

[bbriggs]

Last I heard the 921 has a real tough time with OTA? Most reports I hear state the 921 feels that OTA is optional to record, if at all. So how to you get 480p out of a 301 without the aid of an external scaling unit, most TV's will not up-convert a S-video input or Composite input. DVI is much better than an analog SD input on a fixed pixel display. CRT is not fixed pixel, but I have CRT displays in the house as well...The LCD is a great display. The 811 has issues, but not as many as the 921. I have SD PVR...in my PCTV...I do like the PVR functionality and would buy a 921 if they could fix it...Not that I think the 811 has been fixed completely mind you...but you agree that a 811 can be had cheap, compared to a 921 at $549 that can't handle OTA...I watch more OTA HD than off dish, sorry. Most TV's do not have the capability to scale external sources...please keep that in mind before you make a comment like your TV's line doubler must suck. And again my Hitachi 50V500 LCD REAR PROJECTION display has exceeded all of my expectations.

As you have stated mileage may very...but not everyone thinks the 811 is a complete pile of crap...again we are both stating our opinion.
Jason

I think perhaps my last statement is best: I should shut up. However, please keep in mind that I had no intention of blasting (nor did I) the 811 or your TV. I ABSOLUTELY did not state the 811 is 'a complete pile of crap'. Also, please keep in mind, I didn't say your line doubler 'must suck' (although the question remains open that it might, ABSOLUTELY no insult intended). I didn't even say my TVs are better than yours, I highly doubt they are (though I think CRT-based RPTVs offer the most quality for the dollar even today, there is plenty of room for interpretation based on particular applications.) I merely tried to interject that others may not find similar results to yours, and that the 301 is not necessarily inferior for a particular application based only on the fact it outputs 480i. I, perhaps vainly, tried to point out that satisfactory results MAY depend more on the display device than on the E* box . Some balance in the posts is useful, and yours struck me as rather one-sided (the part about 811 picture quality). Perhaps it is a matter of interpretation (the posts); you apparently found mine to be one-sided. Scott, who I enjoy immensely, and Neutron, a long time poster with considerable wisdom as well, seemed to jump on me for foolishly commenting the 301 outputs 480p. I said no such thing, merely that its 480i output is not displayed by MY TV as 480i. I was attempting to point out again that the display MAY be more relevant than the receiver. That, it struck me, was relevant for the original poster. Which takes me back to perhaps my best comment 'I should shut up'.

 

[Bobby]

So what do they call 1080p?

The future, it ain't here yet.

 

[nippjas]

I think perhaps my last statement is best: I should shut up.

No need...never implied it...even though we don't agree, a good constructive debate helps everyone learn...because as you implied, we all have our own experiences and interpretations...everyone has a different view or opinion, and if you didn't state your opinion to question my opinion, at this point it very well could be a biased opinion.

I have 2 301's and an 811. I traded 2 3800/3900 receivers for the 301's awhile back. At the time the 301's were the most stable receiver I have ever used. Being a previous USSB sub, I do have a little experience in the realm of DBS satellite systems, in fact I can dig up some HTS manuals if you wanted a good laugh. When E* updated the 301's firmware to P202 and P226 all that stability went to chit. In fact in my opinion the reboots and repeated satellite acquisitions on the 301's are more troublesome then the random BSOD I see every couple of days on the 811. But again this is my opinion. For look around in SatelliteGuys and on DBSTalk...you'll find alot of people equally cheesed about all model E* receivers and their services, there is always going to be someone who has a bad experience, but for every 100 users you see complain there's 200 more not dissatisfied. If everyone hated E* and their products they wouldn't have 10 million customers today. Same with Toshiba, Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic, etc, etc...If you do some net searches or even go up to AVS Forums I'm sure you'll find some users bashing the TV you think is great, I've found posts on people hating the equipment I have, I've also found posts of people who love it...There's two-sides to every coin.

No need to snap back, no need to shut up, just be honest with yourself and ask if the alternatives really better?

Good discussion,
Jason

 

[nippjas]

The future, it ain't here yet.

I've got my display to run in 1080p mode by up-converting with an iScan HD unit...Yes Bobby I know this is not being broadcast yet or isn't even really available yet on most displays, I was just being a Jerky....

Jason

 

[Rlanham]

You might consider a Panasonic EDTV 42" Plasma. Dish SD programming looks great on it & Progressive Scan DVD's are fantastic. If SD programming is your main concern, I would consider it. Just rember all EDTV plasmas are not the same, the Panasonic has a 4000:1 contrast ration.

 

[r royer]

OK, after all that my take is;
For 1st trial I should just go with the present 301 hook up and see what it looks like.
Then try converting to DVI or DVMI connections to see if there is any difference. Meanwhile I'll research the local OTA reception to see if adding a OTA antennae will be of any use,
Eventually arriving at a new 811 (did someone say the 811 was connectable to an OTA antennae?)
Does that make any sense or did I really miss the whole point of this discussion?
Rich

 

[r royer]

You might consider a Panasonic EDTV 42" Plasma. Dish SD programming looks great on it & Progressive Scan DVD's are fantastic. If SD programming is your main concern, I would consider it. Just rember all EDTV plasmas are not the same, the Panasonic has a 4000:1 contrast ration.

I was originally going that route (pan 42" plasma) but the room is too big and the 42" just seems to get lost so for the same price I can get the pan 60" LCD which is a much better fit. That's when I got into the problems with the Sat hook up.
Rich

 

[nippjas]

I was originally going that route (pan 42" plasma) but the room is too big and the 42" just seems to get lost so for the same price I can get the pan 60" LCD which is a much better fit. That's when I got into the problems with the Sat hook up.
Rich

To answer your question, yes, the 811 will not only allow antenna connect, it will also allow you to map the channels into the EPG and decode Over the Air HDTV.

I think you'll be happy with the 60" Panny LCD. I researched my purchase for some time before I spent the money. LCD or DLP will never suffer from burn in and the life expectancy is much longer too. Plasma's are very nice, but the average plasma is rated for like 6,000 hours after which it is garbage, the LCD and DLP's have user replaceable lamps, so if you loose the lamp its a simple lamp change. Also Plasmas suffer from the "Rainbow Effect"...Watch golf on one...when the ball launches you can see a rainbow trail from the ball. DLP's also suffer from this but much less noticably.

You say DVI or DVHI, that should read DVI or HDMI. But I think you've got the lingo down pretty good for a self proclaimed newbie...

Good luck and let us know how it works out...

Jason

 

[Rlanham]

To answer your question, yes, the 811 will not only allow antenna connect, it will also allow you to map the channels into the EPG and decode Over the Air HDTV.

Plasma's are very nice, but the average plasma is rated for like 6,000 hours after which it is garbage. Jason

Its ok to be biased, but lets atleast be accurate. 30,000 hours or 10 years avg viewing life expectancy for current plasma tv's, that are properly calibrated.

 

[nippjas]

You must not be talking about one of the $2,800 EDTV 42" plasmas that I could actually afford...

Your Point taken.

Jason