Next wave of high-def adopters could help HD DVD

[ONUOsFan]

Ceteris Paribus = Latin for All things being equal

Basic principle of economics. To make sense of the larger picture you have to simplify it first.


So in all honesty you would have to make a assumption or two and best guess this situation.


least if you wanna do it the way economics teaches us to.

Isn't that what I said?

 

[akodoreign]

The bottom line is that there is absolutely no way to substantiate that statement. None of us has a clue what the market would look like if all studios were neutral. Never mind the fact that the one studio that is neutral sells more on BD....

Is what you said.

But what needs to be done is best guessing

Course said and wanted to say are often lost on the internets

 

[JoeSp]

How is the article not accurate? It says there is a $100 price gap between HD-DVD and Blu Ray players. The cheapest Blu Ray player (as you note) is $299. The cheapest HD-DVD player is $199. I've done the math several times and every time I get a $100 price difference. It seems the article is accurate to me.

Those players are not equal in PQ. The $199 is only 1080i and all BD players are 1080p. You guys may now start debating all the differances between HD-DVD players and BD players.

 

[vurbano]

Those players are not equal in PQ. The $199 is only 1080i and all BD players are 1080p. You guys may now start debating all the differances between HD-DVD players and BD players.

Oh there you go again. IF someone has a good 1080p set it simply doesnt matter. If they don't have a 1080p set then it simply doesnt matter either. How many times are you going to do this? If you have a decent set that properly performs inverse telecine then they ARE equal pictures on both players. All of the information needed for 1080p is in the 1080i 60 signal. My picture is identical on HD-A1 and PS3 please stop the FUD.

 

[ONUOsFan]

Oh there you go again. IF someone has a good 1080p set it simply doesnt matter. If they don't have a 1080p set then it simply doesnt matter either. How many times are you going to do this? If you have a decent set that properly performs inverse telecine then they ARE equal pictures on both players. All of the information needed for 1080p is in the 1080i 60 signal. My picture is identical on HD-A1 and PS3 please stop the FUD.

Which is why, as I said, BD needs to come out with a 1080i player that can compete with the A2 etc, on price, and then we'd all be at the same point. BD standalones and 1080p HD-DVD players are at about the same price points now, so the only difference is the 1080i players.

 

[roachxp]

Looks like the European HDDVD group is going to unleash a ton of cheap players into the UK, looks like Venture ones, and on course a few free movies included.

 

[teachsac]

Those players are not equal in PQ. The $199 is only 1080i and all BD players are 1080p. You guys may now start debating all the differances between HD-DVD players and BD players.

How many tims we going to go over this? Geez.

 

[vurbano]

How many tims we going to go over this? Geez.

It makes for good FUD for JoeSp to use in misleading newbies. He will never stop throwing it out there.

 

[vurbano]

Which is why, as I said, BD needs to come out with a 1080i player that can compete with the A2 etc, on price, and then we'd all be at the same point. BD standalones and 1080p HD-DVD players are at about the same price points now, so the only difference is the 1080i players.

Even better if it had 5.1 analog output too. What JoeSP stays away from is that my little ole HD-A1 gives me advanced audio formats without having to spend a grand on a new reciever. The PS3 FAILS in that department. Why does he not tell newbies he is trying to recruit to buy the PS3 to be forewarned that they will need to drop major cash on a new reciever if they want to hear TrueHD???

 

[ONUOsFan]

Even better if it had 5.1 analog output too. What JoeSP stays away from is that my little ole HD-A1 gives me advanced audio formats without having to spend a grand on a new reciever. The PS3 FAILS in that department. Why does he not tell newbies he is trying to recruit to buy the PS3 to be forewarned that they will need to drop major cash on a new reciever if they want to hear TrueHD???

Didn't you say there was no difference between TrueHD and DD?

I can do DD just fine on my 5 year old receiver. One of these days I'll upgrade, but no reason yet.

 

[teachsac]

It makes for good FUD for JoeSp to use in misleading newbies. He will never stop throwing it out there.

And also coming from someone who doesn't even own a 1080p TV, let alone one that can display 1080p/24 correctly.

S~

 

[diogen]

Didn't you say there was no difference between TrueHD and DD?

I don't recall anybody ever on this forum claiming loslessly compressed soundtrack is the same as DD (640kbps max).
I offered a link where FilmMixer (from AVS) claimed DD+ @ 1.5Mbps is as good as lossless... At least on some titles.

Any clarification on this smart-ass remark would be appreciated (unless this is just standard BD-type arguing - in this case no comments would be appreciated).

Diogen.

 

[ONUOsFan]

I don't recall anybody ever on this forum claiming loslessly compressed soundtrack is the same as DD (640kbps max).
I offered a link where FilmMixer (from AVS) claimed DD+ @ 1.5Mbps is as good as lossless... At least on some titles.

Any clarification on this smart-ass remark would be appreciated (unless this is just standard BD-type arguing - in this case no comments would be appreciated).

Diogen.

Sure thing. I forgot the +. My bad.

Mostly because I'm tired of Vurbano somehow claiming that the PS3 is flawed because it doesn't offer the antiquated 5.1 analog outputs he needs for his receiver.

And to think, I'd almost forgotten how much you annoy me. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[diogen]

...I'd almost forgotten how much you annoy me. Thanks for the reminder.

Any time, just ask...
Nothing gives me more pleasure than to remind Joe's litter about the fact-twisting, space- and time-bending arguments they use...

Diogen.

 

[JoeSp]

Even better if it had 5.1 analog output too. What JoeSP stays away from is that my little ole HD-A1 gives me advanced audio formats without having to spend a grand on a new reciever. The PS3 FAILS in that department. Why does he not tell newbies he is trying to recruit to buy the PS3 to be forewarned that they will need to drop major cash on a new reciever if they want to hear TrueHD???

Correct me if I am wrong (as you must want to do ad nausem), but the PS3 decodes TrueDolbyHD. The HD-A1 has no HDMI out -- is that correct? And the HD-A1 only does 1080i is that correct? And the HD-A1 is not capable of 1080p 24fps -- is that correct? And the HD-A1 takes about a year to start the movie -- okay not a year but pretty damm close -- right?

Okay, so the PS3 has HDMI 1.3 out, decodes TrueDolbyHD thru the HDMI 1.3, does both 1080i and 1080p and 1080p 24fps. And the PS3 is currently the fastest high def player in either formats stable. And now that PS3 is Java1.1 capable along with internet access and gigabytes of storage to go along with the BD playback it will be DTSMasterHD and 2.0 comliance that will be come your battlecry -- right? Gee, I can see how you would much rather have that HD-A1 brick then a PS3. Who wouldn't want a product that is not made for the new HDTVs that are coming out, runs about as fast as a VHS player and will be crippled if Hollywood ever decides to enforce flags on HD material.

I guess I just didn't see where you were coming from.

ps - Just for you Vurbano, I will mark this post as I am sure that when the PS3 starts decoding DTSMaster HD and becomes 2.0 compliant that you will need a reminder as to why you should really stay away from the PS3. Heck I wonder if there are folks here who even know that you own a PS3? Maybe my question to you is why did you buy one in the first place? Did you get tired of waiting for that HD-A1 to boot up?

 

[rad]

Correct me if I am wrong ... The HD-A1 has no HDMI out -- is that correct?

Yes, it does have an HDMI output. I do agree that compared to my PS3 this is one slooooooooow player.

 

[teamerickson]

Correct me if I am wrong (as you must want to do ad nausem), but the PS3 decodes TrueDolbyHD. The HD-A1 has no HDMI out -- is that correct? And the HD-A1 only does 1080i is that correct? And the HD-A1 is not capable of 1080p 24fps -- is that correct? And the HD-A1 takes about a year to start the movie -- okay not a year but pretty damm close -- right?

I love my A1. Yes, it takes awhile to load but is really featured packed. Using the 5.1 analog out to a reciever allows for you to take advantage of the HD audio.

I thought the PS3 had a problem with HD audio. Like, it won't decode or bitsream or something so you can't take advantage of it. Correct?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/hd-dvd-blu-ray-war-zone/96413-ps3-hd-audio-problems.html

 

[teachsac]

Correct me if I am wrong (as you must want to do ad nausem), but the PS3 decodes TrueDolbyHD. The HD-A1 has no HDMI out -- is that correct? And the HD-A1 only does 1080i is that correct? And the HD-A1 is not capable of 1080p 24fps -- is that correct? And the HD-A1 takes about a year to start the movie -- okay not a year but pretty damm close -- right?

For about the tenth time all HD DVD players have had HDMI from the start. Period. End. And for starting discs? Takes no longer than putting in any of these BD-J discs into a gen1 or gen2 BD player. Fantastic Four and Day after Tomorrow took over 2 minutes to start. None of my HD DVD discs take that long on my Gen 1.

Why do you keep harping on 1080p or 1080p/24 all the time. Players, regardless of format, you need entry level players. When Gen 1 came out at around 500 to start, all Blue-ray players were 999 and up.

Again, less than 20% of the TVs on the market are capable of accepting a 1080p signal. Of those that do, less than 1% can display the signal correctly. J6P could not care/ nor does he know what 1080p/24 is. Nor does he know what TrueHD or Master Audio is. What is the point of having a player that does 1080p if you don't have the tv to take advantage of it? Guarantee when Joe sets up his player (insert format here), he is going to run it into his TV just like his DVD player. We'll be lucky if s/he uses component or HDMi. More than likely they'll use composite or s video.

To date these are the only displays on the market that correctly display 1080p/24. The rest of the 120HZ sets apply 3:2 pulldown and double the signal. Ouch. Great for a 1080/60 signal.

1080P Displays

Front Projectors

DreamVision LCOS Front Projector (model Dreambee) (48Hz)
Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080UB LCD Front Projector (48HZ) (Scheduled for December release)
InFocus Play Big IN82 1080P DLP Front Projector (48HZ)
IVision 30-1080p DLP Front Projector (48HZ)
JVC DLA-HD1 LCOS Front Projector (96Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources are refreshed at 120HZ
JVC DLA-HD100 LCOS Front Projector (48HZ with 40,000:1 static contrast ratio)
Mitsubishi HC5000 1080P LCD Front Projector (Projection Picture Size: 50" to 300" measured diagonally) (48Hz)
Mitsubishi HC6000 1080P LCD Front Projector (48HZ) (Scheduled for November release)
Optoma HD8000 Single Chip DLP front projector (48HZ)
Optoma HD81 Single Chip DLP front projector (48 Hz)
PANASONIC PT-AE1000U LCD Front projector (96 Hz)
PANASONIC PT-AE2000U LCD Front projector (96 Hz)
Project design model three 1080P DLP Front Project (Page 94 March 2007 Perfect Vision magazine) 1080P/24 support $24,495, lamp replacement $599 every 2000-4000 hours. Screen size 30”-955”.
Samsung SP-A800B DLP Front Projector (48HZ)
Sim2’s C3X 1080P DLP Front Projector (48HZ)
Sony SXRD 1080P Front Projector VPL-VW50 (Projection Picture Size: 40" to 300" measured diagonally) (96Hz)
Sony SXRD 1080P Front Projector VPL-VW60 (Projection Picture Size: 40" to 300" measured diagonally) (96Hz)
Sony SXRD 1080P Front Projector VPL-VW200 (192Hz refresh rate for 1080P/24) 60HZ sources are refreshed at 240HZ


Rear Projectors


NuVision 52LEDLP (No Color Wheel, no rainbows,3 LEDS, power 100-240V 50/60HZ ) 72HZ
Sony KDS-Z70XBR5 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDS-Z60XBR5 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDS-60A3000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDS-55A3000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDS-50A3000 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)

LCD

Sony KDL-52XBR5 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDL-46XBR5 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDL-40XBR5 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDL-52XBR4 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDL-46XBR4 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)
Sony KDL-40XBR4 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ when Motion Enhancer is turned off)


Plasma

Pioneer PRO-FHD1 1080P 50” Plasma (72Hz)
Pioneer PRO-110FD 1080P 50" Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer PRO-150FD 1080P 60" Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer PDP-5010FD 1080P 50 " Plasma (72HZ)
Pioneer PDP-6010FD 1080P 60" Plasma (72HZ)

S~

 

[JoeSp]

Okay, that hdmi on the A1 is not 1.3 so you can not pass 7.1 channels thru. The PS3 does decode DolbyTrueHD -- all 7.1 channels if available and they are currently working on decoding DTSMasterHD -- the target date is March 08 according to the studio that does DTS. The PS3 is a pretty nice product no matter what the boobirds say.

 

[teamerickson]

Okay, that hdmi on the A1 is not 1.3 so you can not pass 7.1 channels thru. The PS3 does decode DolbyTrueHD -- all 7.1 channels if available and they are currently working on decoding DTSMasterHD -- the target date is March 08 according to the studio that does DTS. The PS3 is a pretty nice product no matter what the boobirds say.

I doubt you're going to get DTSMasterHD.

HDMI Ver 1.3 PS3 & Sammy 1400 - AVS Forum