Over 150 national HD channels in 2006?

[slacker9876]

Yeah ... they have 7 now, this is pretty weak for the leader. After NHL ST is over I plan to "suspend my account until this crap shake out! Denver DMA should come quick ... I hope life will be "good" in Colorado.

 

[GeorgeLV]

DirecTV National HD Lineup (December 2005)

Premium Channels
--------
70 HBO HD
71 Showtime HD

HD Pack
--------
72 ESPN2HD
73 ESPNHD
74 Universal HD
76 Discovery HD Theater
78 HDNet Movies
79 HDNet

DNS HD
--------
80 CBS E
81 CBS W
82 NBC E
83 NBC W
86 ABC E
87 ABC W
88 FOX E
89 FOX W

HD Sports
--------
94 YES HD
95 |
96 | various (FSN HD, HDNet Mavs, NBA TV HD)
97 |
98 NFL Network HD, OLN NHL HD, HD Special Events

HD PPV
--------
99 HD PPV Movies
599 Spice HD

Sunday Ticket HD (719-730)

Local HD Networks Available in New York, Los Angeles, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta, San Francisco, Boston, Dallas, Houston, Tampa and Washington D.C.

 

[Mike McGann]

I kind of want to take issue with those who complain about D* truncated HD signal. They may well be overly compressed, but the gross resolution isn't really the issue. As we all know, D* uses dynamic compression, so one day's compression isn't the same as the next days'.
For those of you with displays capable of true 1920 by 1080 (fixed pixel displays and CRTs with nine-inch guns or bigger) maybe you have an argument, as you have one of the rare displays capable of showing full HD resolution.
If you have a typical CRT RPTV, DLP, LCD or Plasma, your display doesn't have enough resolution, and likely downconverts a higher-res. signal. Setting aside CRT RPTV which generally tops out at about 510P, give or take, the most typical high-res display is 1366 by 768. That means no matter what the signal, your display is truncating some of it — even the lower-res HD sent by D*. For most of you, HD doesn't have much more screen resolution (detail you can see) than a DVD spooled out of a good DVD player.
So here's the upshot: most of you own TVs incapable of showing the full resolution of D*'s HD signal, let alone a full-on HD signal. The differences you see between OTA and satellite are the result of compression — and transmitter encoding. In fact, I've noticed more background noise on local OTA signals in some cases, coughWPVIcough, than on the D* national WABC feed, while other OTA's, say like WTFX (Fox), is better looking than WNYW's D*'s national feed.
The bottom line: why should D* be expected to broadcast a standard that 99 percent of displays can't show?
Undoubtedly, the flamethrowers will be out en masse, so have it.

 

[Sean Mota]

Mike,

There is a huge difference between the downsized D* channels and those that are not downsized on Dish. Give you examples. Both Showtime Hd and HBO HD, HDnet and HDnet Movies and Discovery HD Theater have such clean and crispy look on Dish Network that puts to shame DirecTv HD signal on those channels. When I hear arguments like it does not matter because my HDTV only could not go higher than 768p, it makes me puke because I am doing side by side comparison and the difference is like night and day. In theory it sounds like good theory that it does not matter because my HDTV is not a 1080i but in practice it matters because DirecTv signal on those channels are sub-par and there's no way out about that. Whomever is able to do side by side comparison will see the difference without any problem and without any technical knowledge.

P.S. Unless DirecTv STOPS THE DOWNRESIZING and incresases the BITRATE on those channels LIKE HDNET MOVIES, they will be CHEATING every HDTV Enthusiasts of TRUE HD. There's no way out of this. The only way is for DirecTv do the right thing and STOP THE COMPRESSION CRAZINESS THAT SEEMS LIKE A FEW ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT without questioning how bad it looks compare to other compatible provider.

 

[markd]

Thank you Sean:up Hopefully your post(s) will help those of us who can't compare realize there is a difference. A BIG difference.
This will be important to me around the summer when D* will probably get to us for the upgrade. That's when I'll make my decision to stay with D* or go with E*. If I was making the choice today I would go with E*. But I'm going to stay with what I got until I see how each of them do with their conversions to MPEG-4. Hopefully D* will be offering better PQ by then.
BTW, if anyone is interested. I did a side-by-side comparison with D* and the local TWC a few months ago. TWC HD channels blew D* HD channels out of the water. But TWC analog channels, which is where they still have most of their SD channels, looked a whole lot worst than D* SD channels. I had a choice of compression artifacts from D* or a grainy picture from TWC. Given those two evils the compression looked better to me.

 

[lou_do]

It is easy to see the difference, if you have OTA channels and D* HD. Just look at a live event on an OTA channel, then look at a live event on D*. You will see the picture is a lot clearer and crisp on the OTA channel. That is why I can't really force myself to get excited about D* locals in HD. I won't even use the 4 they are going to give me, I will continue receiving them OTA and get the 29 digital and HD ones I receive now.

I will not jump ship until I see what their PQ looks like after they get all of their MPG4 stuff up and running. We have to give them time, as it is a massive changeover they are taking on, and good things take time. I am looking forward to seeing what HD nationals they will come up with. Wouldn't National Geographic Channel be nice in HD?

 

[pradike]

There is a huge difference between the downsized D* channels and those that are not downsized on Dish.....Unless DirecTv STOPS THE DOWNRESIZING and incresases the BITRATE on those channels LIKE HDNET MOVIES, they will be CHEATING every HDTV Enthusiasts of TRUE HD.

Its facinating that 2 of my neighbors abandoned their HD Dish setups for D*TV in just the past 90 days claiming exactly the opposite, after seeing D*TV HD in my setup.

It is easy to see the difference, if you have OTA channels and D* HD. Just look at a live event on an OTA channel, then look at a live event on D*. You will see the picture is a lot clearer and crisp on the OTA channel.

Maybe at your location, but I just saw 2 live HD events the past week here on D*TV and still have my OTA as well with the new H20 box. If you can see any difference here (as was attempted by 12 people I had over for both), then you have potential as a microsurgeon, because not one of these 12 people saw ANY difference - we even made a "contest of it" for an hour or so, to see who could tell which channel was which.

I kind of want to take issue with those who complain about D* truncated HD signal...For those of you with displays capable of true 1920 by 1080 (fixed pixel displays and CRTs with nine-inch guns or bigger) maybe you have an argument, as you have one of the rare displays capable of showing full HD resolution...The bottom line: why should D* be expected to broadcast a standard that 99 percent of displays can't show?

I'm with you. HD includes 720p and 1080i. I can view either one on my projector, and do so regularly. Unlike some folks here who drink Bud Light and claim HD Lite, folks, I personally have had dozens and dozens of folks see hundreds of hours of HD on D*TV in my setup without all of the macro blocking, downrezzing, and other claimed idiosyncrasies.

More important, my unofficial surveys from these many (perhaps a total of about 65-70) people, is that to a person every one feels that my D*TV image is superior to what they have now. That group represents mostly HT enthusiasts who have Dish HD, Charter HD, and Comcrap HD - on plasmas, CRTs, and DLPs. I have seen perhaps 1/2 of their setups as well, and would agree with THEM. One of my immediate neighbors has a Comcrap HD setup (their latest box) with a $40K CRT unit that was just ISF tuned. His HD image cant touch my DLP projector, and he's the first to admit it. He spent over $135 K on (very good name brand) equipment, and is not pleased with the results in comparison to what he views here.

My point is not about "me or mine" - its that HD viewing is subjective at best, and there can be 100 or more reasons why a particular HD site is better than or less than another. Yes, there are issues of imperfect anomalies of image interference or broadcast image hiccups, but I've seen that on all sat and cable sources alike.

Comparisons are at best point of view, and the whole issue of downrezzing is a joke, unless it directly impacts a particular locations with THEIR particular equipment. While they do a good job of mimicking things, an upconverting DVD player doesn't display "true HD", yet they promote themselves as "near HD" or "just like HD". HD is defined as 720p OR 1080i image, 16 X 9 image ratio, and the coresponding surround sound audio. Downrezzing (such as using MPEG4 compression or otherwise) is not relevant to the definition, and not even mentioned in any plausible defintion.

The HD purists can claim what they want, but at the end of the day, D*TV HD is HD - not HD Lite (according to the CEA and others), and their image quality can be as good as anyone else, given the right equipment, properly tuned equipment, and a proper install job. I don't hear a whole lot about people taking comparisons of the cost or equipment comparisons for image display, let alone the quality of specific install jobs and components - those have major impact to the net HD PQ.

It's the end result that counts, and my HD is mighty fine, thank you. Hope the same for all of you as well. Merry HD CHristmas.

 

[guffy1]

Its facinating that 2 of my neighbors abandoned their HD Dish setups for D*TV in just the past 90 days claiming exactly the opposite, after seeing D*TV HD in my setup.
Maybe at your location, but I just saw 2 live HD events the past week here on D*TV and still have my OTA as well with the new H20 box. If you can see any difference here (as was attempted by 12 people I had over for both), then you have potential as a microsurgeon, because not one of these 12 people saw ANY difference - we even made a "contest of it" for an hour or so, to see who could tell which channel was which.
I'm with you. HD includes 720p and 1080i. I can view either one on my projector, and do so regularly. Unlike some folks here who drink Bud Light and claim HD Lite, folks, I personally have had dozens and dozens of folks see hundreds of hours of HD on D*TV in my setup without all of the macro blocking, downrezzing, and other claimed idiosyncrasies.
More important, my unofficial surveys from these many (perhaps a total of about 65-70) people, is that to a person every one feels that my D*TV image is superior to what they have now. That group represents mostly HT enthusiasts who have Dish HD, Charter HD, and Comcrap HD - on plasmas, CRTs, and DLPs. I have seen perhaps 1/2 of their setups as well, and would agree with THEM. One of my immediate neighbors has a Comcrap HD setup (their latest box) with a $40K CRT unit that was just ISF tuned. His HD image cant touch my DLP projector, and he's the first to admit it. He spent over $135 K on (very good name brand) equipment, and is not pleased with the results in comparison to what he views here.
My point is not about "me or mine" - its that HD viewing is subjective at best, and there can be 100 or more reasons why a particular HD site is better than or less than another. Yes, there are issues of imperfect anomalies of image interference or broadcast image hiccups, but I've seen that on all sat and cable sources alike.
Comparisons are at best point of view, and the whole issue of downrezzing is a joke, unless it directly impacts a particular locations with THEIR particular equipment. While they do a good job of mimicking things, an upconverting DVD player doesn't display "true HD", yet they promote themselves as "near HD" or "just like HD". HD is defined as 720p OR 1080i image, 16 X 9 image ratio, and the coresponding surround sound audio. Downrezzing (such as using MPEG4 compression or otherwise) is not relevant to the definition, and not even mentioned in any plausible defintion.
The HD purists can claim what they want, but at the end of the day, D*TV HD is HD - not HD Lite (according to the CEA and others), and their image quality can be as good as anyone else, given the right equipment, properly tuned equipment, and a proper install job. I don't hear a whole lot about people taking comparisons of the cost or equipment comparisons for image display, let alone the quality of specific install jobs and components - those have major impact to the net HD PQ.
It's the end result that counts, and my HD is mighty fine, thank you. Hope the same for all of you as well. Merry HD CHristmas.

65 to 70 Joe Six Packs that you know think D* HD rocks?

The more you type, the more credibility you lose in my book..

I would delete every bit of your misinformation if I was in charge

 

[pradike]

65 to 70 Joe Six Packs that you know think D* HD rocks?
The more you type, the more credibility you lose in my book..
I would delete every bit of your misinformation if I was in charge

Sorry to say none of the folks I'm talking about make less than 100K a year, most are executives, and all are anything but "Joe Six Packs", my friend. Many are in the tech business as well FYI.

Your weak and poor attempt to respond with insults only show YOUR credibility. That said, in the sprit of the season - try and get a life in 2006.

 

[guffy1]

Sorry to say none of the folks I'm talking about make less than 100K a year, most are executives, and all are anything but "Joe Six Packs", my friend. Many are in the tech business as well FYI.
Your weak and poor attempt to respond with insults only show YOUR credibility. That said, in the sprit of the season - try and get a life in 2006.

Sure buddy, D* HD rocks...

We are all just stupid

 

[CPanther95]

If you can't see a difference between D* HD and OTA, you are either:

1) Watching an EDTV or some other non-HDTV
2) You have a crappy local affiliate
3) You need your eyes checked
4) You are sitting way too far back to appreciate real HD.

Of course, not being able to see such a dramatic difference means you are much more likely to be happy with whatever your provider is sending - and will likely spend much less money in this "hobby".

 

[guffy1]

If you can't see a difference between D* HD and OTA, you are either:
1) Watching an EDTV or some other non-HDTV
2) You have a crappy local affiliate
3) You need your eyes checked
4) You are sitting way too far back to appreciate real HD.
Of course, not being able to see such a dramatic difference means you are much more likely to be happy with whatever your provider is sending - and will likely spend much less money in this "hobby".

Hes not claiming he cant tell the difference...

Hes claiming he can tell the difference, and D* is way better

Apperently D* is the best HD provider out there

 

[dervari]

We are all just stupid

Then again, along the same lines, aren't you inherently calling him and his friends stupid as well?

 

[guffy1]

Then again, along the same lines, aren't you inherently calling him and his friends stupid as well?

I would call it ignorance, rather than stupidity..

Big difference between the two..

 

[pradike]

I would call it ignorance, rather than stupidity..
Big difference between the two..

If you can't see a difference between D* HD and OTA, you are either:
1) Watching an EDTV or some other non-HDTV
2) You have a crappy local affiliate
3) You need your eyes checked
4) You are sitting way too far back to appreciate real HD.
Of course, not being able to see such a dramatic difference means you are much more likely to be happy with whatever your provider is sending - and will likely spend much less money in this "hobby".

Geez...its nice to see all the negativity here for the holidays.

You forgot #5 - You people are totally wrong & clearly paranoid -There IS no difference. That's the right answer.

Apparently some folks just can't stand the fact that life is good, HD is very fine, and not everything has to be trashed/flamed. Their opinions (without seeing anything themselves to talk about) seem to be of some kind of higher (laugh) value than that of dozens who have. There are just some people who live to hear themselves complain about everything. The only way they can justify their unfounded point of view is to insult others.

Said, sad, sad commentary....

Tell you what....since you're only about 7-8 hours away...why not put your eyes and efforts where you lame opinions are, and drive over here and see it for yourself. Then your observations MAY matter. Otherwise, they're not even an educated guess. If you are not getting the results you expect, that's your problem, your equipment, your installation, and your location. Don't assume everyone else is the same.

Oh yeah - Happy friggin HD Christmas!

 

[guffy1]

Geez...its nice to see all the negativity here for the holidays.
You forgot #5 - You people are totally wrong & clearly paranoid -There IS no difference. That's the right answer.
Apparently some folks just can't stand the fact that life is good, HD is very fine, and not everything has to be trashed/flamed. Their opinions (without seeing anything themselves to talk about) seem to be of some kind of higher (laugh) value than that of dozens who have. There are just some people who live to hear themselves complain about everything. The only way they can justify their unfounded point of view is to insult others.
Said, sad, sad commentary....
Tell you what....since you're only about 7-8 hours away...why not put your eyes and efforts where you lame opinions are, and drive over here and see it for yourself. Then your observations MAY matter. Otherwise, they're not even an educated guess. If you are not getting the results you expect, that's your problem, your equipment, your installation, and your location. Don't assume everyone else is the same.
Oh yeah - Happy friggin HD Christmas!

It all depends on your setups people..

The bit rates, resolution, and compression schemes mean nothing

This is some good stuff, Merry Xmas, and thanks for the entertainment!

 

[pradike]

It all depends on your setups people..
The bit rates, resolution, and compression schemes mean nothing
This is some good stuff, Merry Xmas, and thanks for the entertainment!

Thanks for your entertainment as well. I needed a good laugh. There's still hope for some...

Since you're even closer than C95, you are welcome to watch (and learn) anytime as well...

HO HO HO !bow

 

[guffy1]

Thanks for your entertainment as well. I needed a good laugh. There's still hope for some...
Since you're even closer than C95, you are welcome to watch (and learn) anytime as well...
HO HO HO !bow

Im in Northern Michigan...

Thats quite a distance for me to travel for a lesson if you are in the southeast..

Thanks for the kind offer though

 

[pradike]

Im in Northern Michigan...
Thats quite a distance for me to travel for a lesson if you are in the southeast..
Thanks for the kind offer though

A Yoooper huh?

We'll try it again when they come out with an HD Slingbox!

It was a sincere offer....for some reason, thought you were in this neck of the woods. My mistake.

 

[guffy1]

A Yoooper huh?
We'll try it again when they come out with an HD Slingbox!
It was a sincere offer....for some reason, thought you were in this neck of the woods. My mistake.

No, Im no Yooper..

I live in the Northern part of the lower peninsula of Michigan(the golf mecca of the Midwest)..