Turning all power off

[armadillo_115]

Hello guys! Got a few questions today.
I have been turning the power strip off that goes to my MicroHD and VBox when not in use.The Vbox in particular gets fairly hot if left on 24/7. Some transponders that are usually weak on my dish... refuse to lock in the early morning hours after turning everything on.But come in ok after a while.The most problematic transponders are on 116.8W and shouldn't be named here. One has a lot of cows and horses.The channels on 3940 H @ 97W do this as well.(Maybe because those are what I watch most often in the mornings) It affects vertical and horizontal transponders equally.
Could this be due to the colder temperatures? I'm wondering if the Vbox, Lnbf, or Receiver performs better after some warm up time? Or maybe the transmitted signals are lower then?

Also,I'm curious : Does power go to the lnbf (C2WPLL) at all times when the receiver is on?

I may have mentioned this before and it could be related : Sometimes I loose some transponders that are normally strong here.(And I mean there is ZERO signal on the receiver meter) But yet other transponders on the same/or different satellite still come in good.It's not an alignment issue because they will not fine tune in.It's like they do not exist.I have to restart the MicroHD once or twice and BOOM...they are on just fine.It can happen a couple times a day,or go several days and not happen.This has been going on since day one of my system.Is that just a glitch or something that can be corrected? Possibly still a grounding issue?

It's nothing that I can't live with if necessary,just slightly annoying.

Update: In my search for a larger/better dish,I found a 10ft or 12ft Paraclispe last week.But after looking at it closer it seems beyond repair.A truck backed into it years ago and knocked the pole way over...bent one of the main ribs ... and knocked off 2 or 3 of the big circular rings that hold the mesh.Mesh was busted loose in several places as well. Am I correct in passing this up?
It has a SuperJack ball screw actuator that looks to be 36" though,and I told the owner I'd like to have it if he ever scraps the dish.

I have found 2 other 10/12ft mesh dishes but have not caught the owners at home yet.

Thanks for any suggestions....James

 

[KE4EST]

Does your signal go through the Vbox? The ones made with Vbox stamped on them in the last 2-3 years lack a lot to be desired and have really cheap transformers and yes they can get very hot.
If your signal is going through the vbox bypass it and use the vbox remote or front panel to move the dish for a few days. See any there is any change.
You may be getting just enough of a voltage drop and on the 7.5' dish that the higher FEC transponders are giving you fits.

 

[armadillo_115]

Thanks KE4EST, I'll give that a try.I never thought about the Vbox hurting the coax signal,DUH.That could explain why I keep having such random results.

Do I need to turn off the motor control option for each sat in the HD menu first? And if so,will I lose all my Sat positions afterwards? Thanks!

 

[KE4EST]

No, no need to change anything in the receiver. It will still send a command, just no one will listen.
That way you don't have to change anything expect bypass your vbox and just control it manually.

 

[Titanium]

Or experiment and place a quality (2.5GHz minimum) splitter inline. Run one leg to the Vbox and the other leg to the LNBF. If the performance is better using the splitter, you will keep the ability to control the Vbox with the STB and lock onto the signals reliably.

 

[ZetaMale]

I seem to have a similar problem and I'm wondering if the problem is with the GeoSatPro. There are many times that it takes several seconds to lock the transponders and sometimes not at all. The GeoSatPro does get a bit warm and the wife leaves it on all the time. Usually, turning the GeoSatPro off for about 30 seconds and back on gets a lock on some channels that had stopped locking in. I guess I better see about doing back up plans. I wouldn't want anyone to be without TV.

 

[primestar31]

I seem to have a similar problem and I'm wondering if the problem is with the GeoSatPro. There are many times that it takes several seconds to lock the transponders and sometimes not at all. The GeoSatPro does get a bit warm and the wife leaves it on all the time. Usually, turning the GeoSatPro off for about 30 seconds and back on gets a lock on some channels that had stopped locking in. I guess I better see about doing back up plans. I wouldn't want anyone to be without TV.

My MicroHD has been ON and running since 2012. I have power cycled it now and again, otherwise it runs 24/7/365. The only time I have seen something like what you describe above, is when a signal is weak due to a misalignment, or something like that. It's like it takes the MicroHD a little extra time to 'lock on' to the signal.

You might want to do some maintenance to your system, and make sure everything is still aimed properly and such.

 

[. Raine]

My V-Box doesn't get hot at all and I Leave it on 24/7, there might be something going on there if yours is getting hot. Mine is even crammed onto a shelf with another shelf only a 1/2" or so above it.

I have my V-Box and receiver setup the way Titanium suggested doing, on one of my systems, only instead of a splitter, I used a F T connector. Receiver to one leg, one to 8X1 switch and the other to the V-Box. It does give me a bit higher Q doing it that way and you still can move the dish without having the LNB line running through the V-Box.

Maybe check your motor connections on the back of the V-Box and make sure they're connected good? If there's a bad connection there I could see it maybe drawing a lot of current and heating things up. Feel the wires and plugs as the motor is moving after it's been moved a few times and see if the wires or connectors feel warm, the connectors on my V-Box are pretty cheesy looking and small, I could just barely fit my motor wires into them.

 

[armadillo_115]

Bypassing my Vbox as KE4EST suggested seems to be an improvement so far. I did have 1 complete lock up on the receiver last night though.Also got an error on the VBox while bumping the dish once.That actuator is about shot.
Bypassing the Vbox allowed me to move the dish one satellite without moving the receiver. For instance: Dish at 111W while receiver was still on 113W.I tested this way on every satellite.I was shocked to see how much bleed over I was getting from adjacent satellites.I knew a 7.5 dish wasn't 2 degree compliant...but day-um! I'm getting splatter almost everywhere.

I still have some fine tuning to do since I fixed the lower mount bushings a couple weeks ago but I don't believe it is off much.The next question : Will the fine tuning reduce the bleed over enough to make this dish satisfactory? I doubt it.

Back to hunting for a 10 footer or larger and a dependable actuator.

Thanks everyone for the help and putting up with me !

PS: A Raine > I call it a Vbox , but it actually says " DiSEqC-Box " "DMS International". No Vbox label on it.Cheap $35 box. It gets hot enough just left in standby that it's uncomfortable to hold your hand on it very long. It could double as a small space heater in a pinch.lol. No way I'd purposely leave THIS one on 24/7.

 

[Cosmo Blatz]

It gets hot enough just left in standby that it's uncomfortable to hold your hand on it very long. It could double as a small space heater in a pinch.lol. No way I'd purposely leave THIS one on 24/7.

For the 'vbox' heat issue - drill some holes in the case. Also, painting the vbox red will increase its performance by approximately 15%.

 

[Titanium]

Lipstick on a pig? LOL!!!

But seriously, love the customization!

 

[armadillo_115]

HELP! This makes no sense to me.

I lost the usual favorite channels on 116W while checking the bleed over as mentioned previous.Still could not tune them in by bumping the dish with the Vbox this morning no matter how much I moved it east or west.I walked out to the dish and shook it back and forth by hand....not enough that it moved on the pole either.Came back in and had a weak signal...transponders tuned right in with the Vbox then.

WTF ?!! This is driving me crazy.It's not the 1st time that jiggling the dish a bit 'fixed' it.

I'm sure the lnbf is not loose enough to move around...but maybe it needs a better ground contact to the scaler? Maybe a bad compression connector?

I'm going out now to double check the coax connection and switch the coax to the other connector on the dual lnbf.

It reads like I'm making this stuff up...but I'm not.

 

[Titanium]

What size dish are you using? If there is significant interference from adjacent satellites, transponders may be difficult to lock and signal quality readings will be low. How many degrees off of the target satellite are you locking transponders? A properly assembled 6' dish will be 4 degree compliant. If the FD or FL are incorrectly set, this could create stronger side lobes.

Your on the right troubleshooting track. Run a temp coax directly from the STB to the LNBF to rule out cabling/connectors. Connect to second output to rule out problem with 1st output. Too bad you don't have a spectrum analyzer to see what is being fed down the coax. It may also be a tuner or LNBF issue. Hard to identify without an analyzer or swapping out components.

The LNBF does not require "grounding" to the scalar. The scalar is a passive device and does not need to have a grounding connection to any other equipment.

 

[Cosmo Blatz]

Lipstick on a pig? LOL!!!

But seriously, love the customization!

You ain't seen nothing yet! I'm in the process of ordering parts for a major 'vbox' upgrade.
"Lipstick on a pig."
"Throwing good money after bad."
I know. I know.

 

[KE4EST]

Can't wait to see that project!

 

[armadillo_115]

What size dish are you using? If there is significant interference from adjacent satellites, transponders may be difficult to lock and signal quality readings will be low. How many degrees off of the target satellite are you locking transponders? A properly assembled 6' dish will be 4 degree compliant. If the FD or FL are incorrectly set, this could create stronger side lobes.

Your on the right troubleshooting track. Run a temp coax directly from the STB to the LNBF to rule out cabling/connectors. Connect to second output to rule out problem with 1st output. Too bad you don't have a spectrum analyzer to see what is being fed down the coax. It may also be a tuner or LNBF issue. Hard to identify without an analyzer or swapping out components.

The LNBF does not require "grounding" to the scalar. The scalar is a passive device and does not need to have a grounding connection to any other equipment.

7.5 foot mesh dish.A few stronger transponders are still locking from 2 degrees off.Many more are bleeding a Signal Quality of 10 or 15 @ 2 degrees off.I'm sure fine tuning the FD,FL,and Skew might help...but I've been trying to get the major stuff stable 1st..

I tried switching the coax to the lnbf's other output today...I get a ZERO Signal Level there.Maybe lightning damaged it previously...I don't know.Both outputs worked before,I'm sure.Brian,Is there anything in my C2W-PLL Wideband that could be loose and shaking around? Something somewhere changes when I shake the dish.

I plan to buy some rg11 and try that.( The 160ft of rg6 ribbon cable I have is only stamped @ 1800 mhz,and it is copper clad) I've been wanting rg11 regardless.

And I plan to order another titanium dual lnbf...probably one with the wimax filter this time.

And numero uno: keep looking for a larger dish!

got to run

 

[bpalone]

Just a wild thought here. If you are vigoursly (sp?) shaking it, could there be something in the LNB cavity being held in by the cover? Other thought, you've thought of. A silly thought/question, could of you over tightened the coax connector on the LNB or possibly a cold solder joint in the LNB?

Just throwing some thoughts out. Titanium is, by far, way more intelligent with this stuff.

 

[FaT Air]

Something somewhere changes when I shake the dish

I'd be looking at connectors and possibly the cable itself. I've had connectors loosen, just slightly, just from dish movement on the BUD.
Since then, I do snug them with a wrench. (Don't over do it!)

A few stronger transponders are still locking from 2 degrees off

You MAY be able to minimize this by setting the F/D a little above or below calculated value. Keeping the focal length constant,
May 'move' the sidelobe away from interference 'just' enough. There's no guarantee, and no formulas, only through experimentation will you know. YMMV. (worked a while back on a 5ft dish to get a wanted channel. Can't find the thread tho-)

 

[Titanium]

There are dozens of components, solder points and screws inside the cavity. Could something come loose? As BPalone points out, of course! The LNBF has traveled across the ocean and through the mail/common carrier, probably dropped over your gate, kicked up to the porch by the delivery guy or fallen off an install ladder...



One would need to open the LNBF to see if there are loose or damaged components. Who knows what a vigorous shaking will do? Without having the proper tools to troubleshoot, I probably would try a different combination of coax, STB or LNBF to try and narrow down to the culprit device if there is one. The two ports are isolated from each other and it is possible that one port can be killed while the other remains operational. If one port was lost during an electrical event or left exposed to the elements, the other port could remain operational. You are welcome to send the LNBF in and I'll bench it. If it has failed due to defect, we will replace it at no charge.

Often just interrupting a satellite signal (rocking or moving the reflector) will cause the STB to start a tuning routine and lock a signal. Shaking the dish is not a good troubleshooting tool... Without a scope, it is impossible to know how the signal is being affected. Is their a loose component causing the LO to shift? Is the LNB IF output interrupted? Is the satellite signal de-tuned and forcing the STB to reacquire? Does the same issue occur if the STB is at the dish?

Before you buy and trench the expensive coax, run a temporary RG6 to troubleshoot. Worse case scenerio is that a terrestrial RF interference is causing havoc and the dish may need to be relocated or shielded.

A properly assembled quality 7.5 foot (2.3m) dish should be rejecting signals with 3dB attenuation approximately 3+ degrees off axis. It is definitely possible to lock stronger transponders 2 degrees off axis. To be 2 degree compliant, the reflector must be at least 2.6m+ (8.5 feet). From your description, I am guessing that the reflector may be warped or the feedhorn out of position and you are receiving even stronger side lobes. String test the reflector and measure to be sure the feedhorn is centered and proper FL and scalar is set to the proper FD Ratio. Fat Air is right on the money with "experimentation" being the only true determination. If you had set-up your system to first get the easy catch (major stuff) signals, now is time to troubleshoot and optimize. It might be an easy fix, and we often overthink and miss the obvious...

 

[armadillo_115]

First off: Thanks for all the help so far!
I'm sure the lnbf worked on both ports when I got it.Something happened to it here.I'm not faulting anyone but myself.I was hoping you'd say something like: "Oh yeah...there's one wire that connects the gazmolly to the dooflachy and it's easy to reattach with a golden screwdriver." lol.

I briefly played with sliding the lnbf in and out a little this afternoon.I got the Signal Quality up to 65-70 on a mux that keeps giving me a problem.You might say they were about as good as gold.I shut everything down and leave for 90 minutes.When I turn it back on...now I get an SQ of 0 - 28 ! (Mostly in the teens) Dish was not moved and now the mux will not tune in,period.Even worse SQ on my 'cow and pony channel'.
But many other transponders on the same Satellite appear as strong as ever.
That's what I mean when I say nothing is ever the same twice on this darn thing.Unstable and random.

Shaking the dish is not a good troubleshooting tool...

No ... but shaking it is a lot better than what I'm about to do to it if I don't walk away from it a while.

Edit: Youtube video made me P.M.S.L.