Hopper Wins In Court AGAIN!

[gadgtfreek]

You dont get the fact that at contract time the networks have two choices... pull themselfs off of DISH and lose 15 million customers... or charge DISH what they charge all other providers.

They just cant say "Well its DISH, we hate them so we will charge them more." its not like that. The laws are in DISH's favor all around.

How can they not justify an increase if Dish has implemented tech that skips ad's, which they are paid for? Who loses faster, Dish with no CBS and Fox, or CBS and Fox with no Dish?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Question is now how long will it take DIRECTV to turn on Ad Skipping on the Genie.

I am told that the software is already in the boxes they just need to turn it on.

 

[tomcrown1]

You dont get the fact that at contract time the networks have two choices... pull themselfs off of DISH and lose 15 million customers... or charge DISH what they charge all other providers.

They just cant say "Well its DISH, we hate them so we will charge them more." its not like that. The laws are in DISH's favor all around.

What good is 15 million viewers for network if we all use auto hop and can not see the ads? That is the fear.




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[dare2be]

It's all moot, as the customer always loses at contract renewal time, for all providers, whether it's loss of carriage, or increased rates. Autohop, or not, Dish or Direct or cable. It doesn't matter. We could be in the worst recession/depression ever, and the content providers will continue to demand higher and higher rates.

 

[gadgtfreek]

It's all moot, as the customer always loses at contract renewal time, for all providers, whether it's loss of carriage, or increased rates. Autohop, or not, Dish or Direct or cable. It doesn't matter. We could be in the worst recession/depression ever, and the content providers will continue to demand higher and higher rates.

I agree, which is why Im done arguing about Autohop. Put it on my do not care list. We wont know how much it cost us or didnt for awhile, so it's wait and see time. I have more pressing concerns like the shifting in sports coverage, what channels I dont have, and what Dish is gonna do about it. Plus the upcoming ESPN contract.

 

[tomcrown1]

Question is now how long will it take DIRECTV to turn on Ad Skipping on the Genie.

I am told that the software is already in the boxes they just need to turn it on.

Will direct tv go apple route? Charge a premium for ad skipping?


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[Poke]

Yeah I think it's good they try to stand up to the networks but it will take all TV Providers and their viewers to make a difference. Dish at some point is going to have to realize it takes a joint effort from all providers to get on board. If you try to do it all by yourself most cases the networks will not treat you the same which then it will show. Where if more providers get on board then the networks will have to bend more on their rates so forth. But if other providers do not get involved and just pay the rates then Dish will have a hard time trying not to pay similar or the same price as they do.

Either way people want their HD Channels so forth and the less you have then the less subscribers you will have and folks will go where they will get more HD Content. But right now Content is the most important thing and I think people want more HD Channels than some auto hop feature.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Look at how much Comcast / NBC just paid for NASCAR rights...

Bills are going to keep going up and up no mater what.

The amount of people that have Hoppers and that use AutoHop is so small that at this point it does not have any effect of broadcasters. In fact I am told that the people who owned DVR's and manually skipped commercials are the same people who use AutoHop.

Of course if all 15 million customers got Hoppers then I could see a problem.

 

[dare2be]

What good is 15 million viewers for network if we all use auto hop and can not see the ads? That is the fear.

I have no fear. The ads are still viewable and non-autohop skippable on the airdate, just as if there was no autohop. The ads still won't be watched even without autohop.

Worst case scenario I see coming out of this is a delay of the time that Autohop is allowed to be turned on (outside of the Nielson data collection window) (3 days? 7 days?)

 

[dennispap]

What good is 15 million viewers for network if we all use auto hop and can not see the ads? That is the fear.




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certainly not all dish customers have the hopper, and not all that do use auto hop. Prob 10%, total dish subs,if that.

 

[rexlan]

I'm confused. If Dish can defeat say Fox commercials then why would Fox care if they lost viewers on Dish? Fox is entitled to make a profit just like we do when we go to work - you do require pay correct? Advertisers certainly expect to have a reasonable shot at having their commercials viewed/heard and it certainly would not be attractive to advertise on a network knowing their commercials can be defeated easily and automatically. The key is automatically. If this is how this all works I would be willing to drop Dish if I were a network trying to make a profit.

Look at this site for example ... Scott says it depends on advertiser revenue ... OK, let's change the software so that all the advertising is automatically removed ... who wants to advertise now? I'm sure I am missing something in this discussion ... nothing unusual though. That all said it is different if I elect to FF through an advertisement (which I certainly do). This requires my personal decision and not that of a machine doing it automatically.

Everyone who provides a free service please contact me so I can take advantage of you ...

 

[Kent4499]

I have loads of Buggy Whip Manufacturing stock. Who's interested??
Time and Technology marches on!

 

[dare2be]

Look at this site for example ... Scott says it depends on advertiser revenue ... OK, let's change the software so that all the advertising is automatically removed ... who wants to advertise now? I'm sure I am missing something in this discussion ... nothing unusual though. That all said it is different if I elect to FF through an advertisement (which I certainly do). This requires my personal decision and not that of a machine doing it automatically.

?Too many people don't understand the particulars of Autohop and then make up scenarios to support their arguments that don't correlate to reality, so I'm done here, except to say Autohop is not automatic. The user has to choose to enable it every time they watch a recorded event. It can not be used during live (time-shifted) viewing, nor during the same day as the airdate. Nielson ratings are not affected. Commercials are still there to be skipped manually, just as they are being done now without Autohop.

 

[king3pj]

I'm confused. If Dish can defeat say Fox commercials then why would Fox care if they lost viewers on Dish? Fox is entitled to make a profit just like we do when we go to work - you do require pay correct? Advertisers certainly expect to have a reasonable shot at having their commercials viewed/heard and it certainly would not be attractive to advertise on a network knowing their commercials can be defeated easily and automatically. The key is automatically. If this is how this all works I would be willing to drop Dish if I were a network trying to make a profit.

Look at this site for example ... Scott says it depends on advertiser revenue ... OK, let's change the software so that all the advertising is automatically removed ... who wants to advertise now? I'm sure I am missing something in this discussion ... nothing unusual though. That all said it is different if I elect to FF through an advertisement (which I certainly do). This requires my personal decision and not that of a machine doing it automatically.

Everyone who provides a free service please contact me so I can take advantage of you ...

Because most Dish customers don't have a Hopper? Why take your stations away from 15 million customers when maybe 3 million of them have the ability to use Auto Hop? Plus most local Fox channels aren't even owned by Fox. The local affiliates negotiate with Dish for actual Fox locals.

Fox's real Dish money comes from the contracts for FX, Fox News, Fox Sports Net, Fox Movies, Speed, Fox Soccer Channel, etc... All of which are channels that Auto Hop doesn't work on. Would Fox really want to give up their subscriber fees on all of those channels for 15 million subscribers just because they don't like Dish's Auto Hop? I doubt it.

 

[gadgtfreek]

What triggers how autohop knows there is a commercial. Could they not trick autohop? Software against software? I'm not up on how it determines when a commercial starts and when they end.

 

[dare2be]

What triggers how autohop knows there is a commercial. Could they not trick autohop? Software against software? I'm not up on how it determines when a commercial starts and when they end.

Word is that time markers in the PTAT stream are placed manually by someone watching, and then those markers are sent down overnight through the update window or thereabouts. So supposedly software solutions to defeat it would be ineffective.

Channels could start injecting more commercial breaks into the stream, so instead of 3 commercial breaks of 3 minutes each, they could have 9 commericlal breaks of 1 minute each, making it harder to set up the autohop for each episode.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

?Too many people don't understand the particulars of Autohop and then make up scenarios to support their arguments that don't correlate to reality, so I'm done here, except to say Autohop is not automatic. The user has to choose to enable it every time they watch a recorded event. It can not be used during live (time-shifted) viewing, nor during the same day as the airdate. Nielson ratings are not affected. Commercials are still there to be skipped manually, just as they are being done now without Autohop.

Bingo its no different then hitting the 30 second skip button, which honestly works better then AutoHop.

 

[tomcrown1]

This is all going to the Supreme Court. My fear is that based on how they have ruled in the past they may make skipping commercials with fast forward or auto hop illegal.

They sure seem to come out with some odd ball rulings lately.

The other could be true and the court will rule in dish favor.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Wow, no way to beat that LOL.

I wonder if you will see any flack from Sinclair or someone like them? I think on that level things have been silent.

Word is that time markers in the PTAT stream are placed manually by someone watching, and then those markers are sent down overnight through the update window or thereabouts.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

This is all going to the Supreme Court. My fear is that based on how they have ruled in the past they may make skipping commercials with fast forward or auto hop illegal.

I can't see how the Surpreme Court is going to hear it, when lower courts won't even hear it.