Dish's en banc request APPROVED!

[DefDude]

Today the reason Tivo filed this case in Texas with a Texas jury has just had the bottom fall out. They new that Texas was the only place were they could prevail, now the case is in adult hands.

 

[harshness]

TiVo has several hundred million dollars in the bank, no debt, and a low cash burn rate.

TiVo had $240 million at the end of the previous quarter and a good chunk of that ($104.6 million) would seem to be a result of the judgment again in question.

If this judgment goes against them, there will be little more than the cash left and that's not a particularly attractive investment. The TiVo market cap is $1.12 billion yet the company would likely cash out at considerably less than that.

 

[Thomas22]

TiVo had $240 million at the end of the previous quarter and a good chunk of that ($104.6 million) would seem to be a result of the judgment again in question.

Nope. TiVo hasn't been paid yet for the judgment in question.

 

[Crazy_Legs]

Expiration dates for the TIVO patents range from December 2015 to February 2020.



The earlier observation that Dish stock hasn't really budged during all this is not exactly accurate. It has moved a little but to a much lesser degree because the issue will not affect Dishes bottom line significantly UNLESS, they are forced to lose a hugh number of customers. That will only happen if the VIP series is ordered shut down, leaving Dish with NO DVRs to supply their subscribers. Nobody except those who likely have ulterior motives posting on this forum are suggesting this to be the case or you'd see the Dish and SATS stock plummet like TIVO. The idea that the suit is open ended on the shutdown order is just silly.



Disclosure- I own Dish stock.

I didn't say Dish stock. I said Echostar stock which would be buying TiVO if anything and is the competitor to TIVO. Even though E* has limited it's liability to $100 million I believe, it would be impacted just as greatly as Dish would.

 

[Thomas22]

Even though E* has limited it's liability to $100 million I believe, it would be impacted just as greatly as Dish would.

Echostar's liability limit is $5 million.

 

[Crazy_Legs]

It certainly isn't correct to characterize it as "losing money hand over fist". TiVo has several other irons in the fire too such as Virgin cable in England.

Ok, I'll withdraw that characterization. But with that I will ask, how much cash on hand does TivO have? What is it's operating costs? And if they lost a significant amount of subs from the STB business, could the other ventures hold up the company?

 

[Crazy_Legs]

Echostar's liability limit is $5 million.

Ok $5 million. Thank you for the correction. Yet the overall point of that statement remains valid.

 

[BobMurdoch]

I'll be damned...... Charlie got a suck-out on the River (we all know how Charlie loves poker).

...and all our DVRs live to record another day, er, 6 months.

Chicken Little has left the building, for now.

 

[RandallA]

I'll be damned...... Charlie got a suck-out on the River (we all know how Charlie loves poker).

...and all our DVRs live to record another day, er, 6 months.

Chicken Little has left the building, for now.

Start another thread in 6 months, hopefully we'll get better news.

 

[eddie willers]

Start another thread in 6 months, hopefully we'll get better news.

The odds have got to be in overturning.

No doubt the other judges were polled, otherwise, why bother?

 

[dangue]

The odds have got to be in overturning.

No doubt the other judges were polled, otherwise, why bother?

To clarify the position. If enough judges had an interest in clarifying issues, they coul take it up. Taking it up does not signify overturning it.

 

[BobMurdoch]

To clarify the position. If enough judges had an interest in clarifying issues, they coul take it up. Taking it up does not signify overturning it.

No, but it does stop the clock for several more months....

 

[Crazy_Legs]

No, but it does stop the clock for several more months....

:up

 

[kstuart]

We sold shirts before and lost our shirts on them... (Mainly because my wife screwed up the shipping and thought the price to mail them was a nice low price... but then when it came time to mail then the price to mail was almost as much as we charged for the shirts.)

This is a frequent mistake.

I just bought a spare used land line phone on ebay for $10 and the guy listed the shipping as a flat $6.95.

The phone arrived earlier this week, and I noticed that the postage meter said $14.50.

I voluntarily sent the guy $24.50 since he did not ask for me to compensate him for his mistake, and $10 is a very low price for this phone.

But is just shows that people are used to shipping prices from back in the Internet Boom days when you could send just about anything through the post office for $5.

PS All the more foolish is that ebay has a built-in app that calculates the exact shipping cost, depending on the zip code of the person who buys it. So, Scott, if you put your shirts in your own "ebay store", then you can use their shipping app. It even allows a standard "handling charge" to be added, so that sellers can make more money on the shipping.

 

[Peter Parker]

I believe that the patent expires in 2016 or 2017.

Edit - (After a search) The '389 patent expires 7/30/2018

That sounds about right and I would not characterize that in the way the earlier poster did.

 

[Peter Parker]

The odds have got to be in overturning.

No doubt the other judges were polled, otherwise, why bother?

If they were polleda t all they were polled about whether the case has enogh merit to be hear------not on whether the decision should be overturned. Again there is no doubt that DISH is better off than before but who knows how much better?

 

[mike123abc]

The odds have got to be in overturning.

No doubt the other judges were polled, otherwise, why bother?

I doubt it will be overturning. After all the appeals court already had a round of this and I doubt they will overturn themselves.

What I see is 2 things the appeals court will decide:

1. If downloading new software is an acceptable cure (provided the software no longer infringes) verses having to just turn off all the boxes and say sorry.

2. If Dish really programmed around the patent or not.

I still see Dish having to pay the original money plus infringement damages up to the time the new software was put in place. The appeals court already upheld the original infingement findings and the Supreme Court did not take the case, so that would still stand.

If they decide Dish indeed no longer infringes, then they will have to decide if reloading the boxes with new software satisfies the conditions of the order.

 

[mike123abc]

Really? You don't think TiVo would appeal?

The problem of course is where will TiVo appeal to? What are the odds of the Supreme Court taking the case? I am sure they would try, but I doubt the Supreme Court would take the case.

 

[tomcrown1]

Appeal untill tivo runs out of money. Lawsuits are expensive and the person with deep pockers usally wins. Think about the valdez oil spill big oil won.

 

[navychop]

Nope. TiVo hasn't been paid yet for the judgment in question.

Hmmm. I didn't know that. Has TiVo rec'd any money from Dish or Echostar?