“Well there’s your problem!”

[waylew]

Do you folks ever get to watch TV?


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That's what I do,haven't played with my dishes for months,other than turning the Pinnacle back on to the beam when the wind stops blowing .And I've mostly fixed that problem,boy there was a lot of wind this winter .

 

[Dee_Ann]

I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm missing something here. I have some rusty, dusty, distant memory of there being some metal thing in the middle between the feed horn and the LNB.
Yes no?




While I am getting some signal, it's still not right. I was messing with it earlier today but mosquitoes started to chew me up and then it started raining so I had to call it a day.
I went inside and on the MicroHD I wiped all the channels from previous scans away and set it up to do a full sky, detailed blind scan.
Naturally it took about 4-5 hours, maybe more, I didn't pay attention and napped off a while during the rain.

I'm still not hitting 125 worth a darn. Unfortunately it's supposed to rain again tomorrow. I'm guessing maybe Saturday I can go out an strip the dish from the motor.
Then I'm going to clamp that loooooong stick to the motor so I can put the compass on it and aim it precisely. No guessing anymore.
Being that this is a Frankendish there are absolutely no markings at all to go by. I'm 100% on my own with this thing.
On a proper dish, as you all know, there are markings that you can look up in the instructions and you set the dish to those marks and if the pole is plumb you should be very close to "on the money" and your only real concern is azimuth. (Another new buzzword I just learned. )

I have put a angle meter on it and tried to see if I can find a spot on my dish where I can find a number that matches up with the numbers from a dish you would buy but that's been for naught.
Until I get the motor azimuth lined up precisely I don't think this is going to get me too far, even with the fancy new meter.

I'm hoping the the LNB&F I have is proper.

OH YEAH! One other thing I just remembered!

This is my "Lawnchair dish" as I have been calling it for several years! This dish was taken apart, not by me of course, and one of the arms was lost. I know it's here, somewhere in this place, likely under something in the garage from hell. I've looked for it for years and can't find it. I ended up taking apart a trashed lawn chair and bending one of the legs of it to be a very, very close match to the opposite arm.
I think that it's so close that it shouldn't be a problem but now I have to wonder. I really need to find that missing arm.

I suppose that my other option is to switch this dish out with a different one so that I can use a different LNBF. I'll have to go look my stuff over and see what can be switched around.
I have a few 1 meter dishes that I'm using for Dish Network. Maybe I could swap one of those out since they aren't as finicky as FTA and would be parked on like 110 or 119 permanently.

Time to play musical satellite dishes. Again.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well when it rains it hurricanes.
I think my MicroHD died. :cry:

I was scanning satellites and it winked out and the screen on my tv said NOT SUPPORT! which was the tv telling me it was receiving a video signal in some odd format. I pressed the power button on the remote to cycle the STB and it rebooted and I got video back but now ALL the satellites are no signal. Nothing. The only thing in there is a 22k switch and the USALS motor. My C-band is on the 22k side of the switch and the motor is on the other side, the 0k side. I checked the settings in the tuner for the motor and switch and all is as it should be and still nothing..

I'm sitting in bed so I'm shutting it down for the night. Any suggestions? I also pulled the power cord from the STB for a minute and that didn't help either. I can't tell if the motor is moving or not, I'm not going outside in my jammies.

I've never had anything like this happen before, this thing has been 100% flawless from day one.




Sent from my ancient Jurasic iPad using Jurasic Tapatalk 2.5.2

 

[Titanium]

Just happen to be up (3am) working with an engineer in China on a project and saw your post. Bummer!

1. Blow or short circuit in the 22KHz switch? Check the path with your AI Turbo meter? If no signal from satellite, bypass the switch and barrel to direct connect to a LNB.

2. micro outputting power and switch commands? Does the KU motor move? If so, Great, you have power and commands.
Power: Connect the micro to the AI Turbo IRD connection and check the Voltage /Current menu screen. See if the STB is outputting power. If so, switch polarities with STB. Does the voltage change 13/18Vdc?
22KHz - Do you have a cheapo meter that has a 22KHz LED indicator. If so, connect the meter to the STB and toggle 22KHz ON/OFF and see if the LED shows 22KHz switching.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Ok, I slept on it and this morning when I went outside I discovered the dish was tipped waaaay over to the east.
I went back inside and reconnected the power to the STB and after it booted up I selected EBRU on 97w and hit go.
Then I ran outside over to the dish which was totally unresponsive. Ugh !

I thought I should jiggle the connectors. So I did and then the dish started moving. And it stopped. And moved. And stopped. And moved.
Rather than a steady progression, it moved to the 97w position in a painful, start and stop way.

I am assuming that the connectors are bad at the motor.



A few years ago I found that the Frankendish thing I made hits the wires coming out of the motor, in a BAD way.
So I had no other choice but to use some very cheap, Chinese junk 90 degree right angle connectors I bought at the 99¢ store.
At the time it seemed like a good idea, mainly because there were no other options at that time. I made due with what I could find.

About a year ago one of them snapped off and I had to make another journey back to the 99¢ store to buy another package of two of these things.
And it has worked. I suppose.

I guess last night when the dish went all the way east it jiggled the wires and it lost connection to the motor and apparently that took the entire system down.

Well, not to worry. A few days ago I was browsing on ebay for satellite related things and I stumbled upon some actual compression fittings that are 90 degree !



Now I can eliminate those crummy junk connectors with some proper connectors.

Also, I realized that I have another dish that is pretty much identical to this one. The DMX Muzak dish that I'm using for Dish Network 110w is an almost exact copy of this dish, only a bit newer.
I took a tape measure and checked and they are identical in measurements! So, I'm going to swap out the arms on the two and put the factory made arm on my motorized dish and put my lawn chair part on the Dish dish. The Dish dish is more tolerant because it's already massive overkill for Dish Network and I can adjust the LNBF on it a little easier than I can with it's FTA twin. It will be fine like that until I find the original arm which is here, somewhere. I have a general idea where it might be but it will be a nightmare to dig for it. I'll find it, eventually.



So the rain has passed. Today I am going to strip the dish from the motor, aim the motor with a compass, replace the stupid cheap connectors and swap the arms between the two dishes.

 

[Dee_Ann]

And here's stupid question #2,718...

On this picture, and in general I suppose, where would the focal point be?
1, 2, 3 or 4? Or somewhere else?

The focal point is never changing, right? Irregardless of the LNB and or feedhorn used, it doesn't change, right?

I THOUGHT for years and years, that the focal point was actually at the little antenna wires inside the LNB and that you moved the LNB(F) back and forth so the signal is reflected to hit the little tiny antenna wires inside. But, is that incorrect? Does it like hit somewhere else like in the funnel part of the feed horn and then it's pushed down the tube to the antennas?



On my camera there is a mark that shows the focal plane.



Doesn't this thing more or less function like a camera, light waves and radio waves are the same thing, just a different frequency.
Wouldn't the feed horn be the lens and the LNB the camera? In a manner of speaking?

I know I'm dense and I am a slow learner but I am struggling to get this into my very thick, hard head in some form that I can understand it enough to have an AH HA! moment and then I won't have to keep asking stupid questions.

 

[Titanium]

The focal point will be between points 1 and 2.

Nice camera analogy. With a zoom type camera lens, the field of view and focus are variable and projecting onto a flat sensor or film plane.

Think of the reflector as the image that you wish to capture, the scalar as the zoom setting, and the feedhorn opening as the film plane. Once the signal enters the feedhorn, the shape and dimensions are critical to keep the bouncing waves in phase as they travel towards the probe (antenna). If the pick-up device (LNB) is externally mounted, a waveguide will carry the traveling RF to the device. Check-out "flexible waveguides" if you want to see some crazy waveguides that could be a loop of spaghetti and still pass RF!

 

[Dee_Ann]

Tore it all down this morning. Part 1. More in next post.

 

[Dee_Ann]

So I pulled the dish off the motor today.

I went to the STB menu and told it to move the motor to the zero position. I then pulled the power cord from the STB.

Next I went to the dish and totally removed the dish from the motor and set it aside.

I clamped a loooong stick to the side of the motor and put a compass on it so I can aim the motor at true south. Or magnetic south I guess since I used the compass. Magnetic south is 178.1 and of course true south is 180. But I set it to between 178 and 179. Close enough, yes?

No guessing there.

Then I found that one of the cheap junk right angle adapters had popped apart. Hence the problems this morning.

I cut the old compression connectors off and put the brand new right angle compression connectors on, properly.

Then I switched out the arms from the DMX Muzak dish (that I'm using for Dish 110). The homemade arm I cobbled up from an old lawn chair, was not even close to being right. Too long, bent wrong, etc..
I put a proper Primestar/Prodline arm on the FTA dish and the lawn chair parts on the Dish dish.

I checked with my meter and the Dish dish is still rockin a strong signal. It will be fine until I can find the missing factory arm.

I put the FTA dish back on the motor and lined it up square with the motor which was still sitting on zero.

I went in the house and powered up the STB and moved the dish to 95 G3C which is as close to due south as there is. There was a signal there already.

I went outside and with my meter I tweaked the elevation for a better signal.

Back inside and swung it over to 125. Nothing. No signal.

I went outside and rotated the dish on the motor shaft more to the east and got a signal on 125. I tweaked it a bit then went inside and scanned 125. I got channels. Not all of them but some. Which was better than before because I've never been able to get 125 on this dish/motor/STB..

I moved the dish back to 95 and I still have channels there too.

But I have now lost everything west of 95.

I'm stopping for today, I'm burned out. Maybe a few hours cooling off will help me think it through as to why I don't get things to the west now.

To be sure, I've done something wrong. Again..

 

[Titanium]

How do you know that the dish is aligned with the motor shaft? The dish will not track the arc if the reflector is not aligned with the motor shaft. My money is on the dish not being in perfect in alignment with the motor tube. This easily happens when using a dish that does not have a through-bolt in the mount that passes through the hole in the motor tube.

1. Drive the motor to zero.
   
2. Verify that the pointer on the motor tube is pointed at zero.
   
3. Measure from the tip of the tube pointer to a point on the edge of the dish next to the side arm support bolt.
   
4. Repeat on the opposite side of the dish to verify that the measurements are identical for both sides of the dish.
5. If not loosen the dish mount clap and slightly rotate the dish on the motor tube until measurements on both sides are identical.

Now time to tune! Set the dish elevation to the declination angle provided in the motor's manual for your latitude.

If you are using a STB with USALS, who cares about finding true south? Just get it close (5 - 10 degrees). Use the STB USALS menu setting to drive the motor to an active satellite nearest true south (the top of the arc), which is 95W at your location. Don't bother aligning the motor housing to true south. This is just an extra step that gains little other than exercise and heat stroke! With your meter on an active transponder, slowly pan the motor on the ground pole East and West about +/- 10 - 15 degrees while watching for the Signal Quality reading to jump. Once you have aquired 95W, try the satellites.

 

[Dee_Ann]

This will me my agenda for the morning..

Oh, and the STB is the MicroHD, naturally..
And thank goodness it wasn't defective/broken !

 

[TheHamNerd]

Do you folks ever get to watch TV?


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LOL

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well, with between my FTA, my Dish AT250 subscription and my Roku 3, I never, ever run out of things to watch. And within the Roku world, I subscribe to Amazon Prime, Hulu Plus and Netflix. Also there are about 130 Roku channels I have on my list. So yeah, there's more than I can watch.

I need to do what "The Man Who Fell to Earth" did and get me a few more screens.

 

[jorgek]

Funny, I have FTA, cable TV and OTA which is a lot of channels. However I only watch a handful of my favorites.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well, another day spent sitting in the sun.

First up for the day, I moved the motor to zero using the MicroHD menu. Then I put this rather large square against the side of the motor and the other edge up against the plate that the dish is bolted to.
It was definitely NOT square with the motor. I loosened the dish a bit and gently bumped it back so that it was absolutely 100% square with the motor.
There is zero doubt in my mind about it being square with the motor now. However the photo I took doesn't really show that, I just held it up after the fact to give a view of how I did it, after the fact.



I went back inside (Sheesh! I wish this fancy pants new meter would move USALS HH motors !) and I moved the dish to 95w/G3C.

I went outside and tweaked the signal by adjusting the dish up and down and adjusting it's azimuth on the pole, the entire thing as a whole, not the dish alone. I changed the motor azimuth.

I got what looked like a great signal on 95, according to my meter.

So I moved the dish to 125. No signal.

I adjusted the elevation of the dish itself and did not touch the motor. I got signal now. Back in the house, scanned in EVERYTHING on 125, like a boss.

Moved the dish to 72. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Moved it over to 87. Barely. Some stuff comes in but not everything.

Back to 95 and another episode of lefty-righty-upsy-downsy. Back to 125 and now SOME stuff comes in but not everything.
Still nothing on the east side.


I have long since misplaced the manual for my motor but fortunately for me, I took photos of it and uploaded it here a few years ago when I bought it.

After reviewing the missing manual, I have learned one thing and assumed another.

First off, my dish is a home made Frankendish so there are no "proper settings" for it.



I have been mistakenly using the wrong terms to describe my antics. I have been twiddling ENDLESSLY with the declination of the dish, for which there are NO markings at all on it.
The inclination of the motor however, I have come to ASSUME, is probably off a bit.



I'm at 29.58 latitude but the manual only has settings for absolutes, 28, 29, 30, etc.. . I'm just a little over the middle.
I have the motor elevation set at 61, according to the manual and rounding DOWN to 29 latitude.
At this setting I have had nothing but misery so now I have decided to try and change the motor inclination from 61 to between 60 and 61, which should jive with me being between 29 and 30 latitude.

Then I'm going back to 95 and try again.

I sure wish there was a handheld, battery powered USALS controller you could bring outside to the dish.

Someone PLEASE make one????????? THANKS!

 

[primestar31]

I sure wish there was a handheld, battery powered USALS controller you could bring outside to the dish.

Someone PLEASE make one????????? THANKS!

Dee, Brian when he was at SatelliteAv covered you WAY back then with this device. It's called the "MicroHD" receiver. It works great outside with a 12volt battery and a small lcd monitor. I use and old DVD monitor from the kind they use inside mini-vans to keep kids quiet.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Wait a minute !! IS THIS



my "declination" ?????

I stuck this tilt meter all over the dish while it was set to zero reference, trying to find numbers that jive with the numbers in the manual.
And when I stuck it to this part, it showed like 8 or 9. Hmmmmm... Ok then.

So I set the motor inclination to as close as I could get it to 29.5

Then I adjusted the dish until THIS little stick on tilt meter read about 5 (I couldn't recall the exact number at that moment so I went for 5)

I aimed the dish at 95, AGAIN, and adjusted the azimuth until I got a good signal.

Then I moved it to 125. Got signal. I'm missing SOME channels there but SOME are coming in.
I move back to 72 and it's booming large! Signals are really strong on 72. Earlier I was getting nothing at all on the east side of 89.

Now it's seeing every single satellite up there but not all the channels are coming in. It's weak on the west side but strong on the east side.
I'm guessing I still need to tweak the azimuth a little more to the west.

I'm close. I'm really, really close now.

Did I just discover that all this time the declination setting was right there? Is that the right spot to read it from?
At least the number there jives with the number in the manual and it's as close as I've gotten yet to hitting everything.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dee, Brian when he was at SatelliteAv covered you WAY back then with this device. It's called the "MicroHD" receiver. It works great outside with a 12volt battery and a small lcd monitor. I use and old DVD monitor from the kind they use inside mini-vans to keep kids quiet.

Yes, that would work. But then my MicroHD is in my bedroom and it's stuck back in a place that's very difficult to get to. The wires are short and the power adapter is even harder to get to.
I would rather eat a box of used kitty litter than have to pull the the tuner in and out of where it is.

I have a little LCD TV but you can't see it in daylight. Dragging all that out in the yard gets me back to the place I don't want to be, pulling stuff apart, crawling under and behind cabinets and dragging extension cords outside, all to use a device that is impossible to see in sunlight.

Someone, somewhere must make a simple USALS controller in a handheld, battery powered box, like my meter. One that has an LCD display like my meter does.
It wouldn't need to read a signal from the dish, all it would need to do is move the motor to the satellite you select with arrow buttons.

There must be something out there.

 

[Dee_Ann]

My dad gave me this


He bought it several years ago and decided he didn't like it so it sat till the batteries died.
So I had to go buy new batteries but now I'm ready to rock on and get serious with this stuff.
That silly little meter with the gravity needle in it sticks so it's hard to get a good reading.
And it's a bit large so sometimes it doesn't fit well into all places.
Between it and this new digital one I should be able to figure this out.
Guessing at this stuff has gotten me nowhere except years of wasted time and effort.

I think I'm really close to cracking the secret of this annoying Frankendish.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I finally, after almost FOUR years, got ALL the satellites and almost all the channels!
All I'm missing is PBS Montana which I had coming in great earlier. Also missing FSTV.
Later today I'll give it another go, I'm so flippin close now.

It was the digital angle gauge that helped me get things sorted out.

edit: OMG... I dug through my old emails trying to figure out when I bought this motor. I bought it in 2009 ! And I've never gotten it to work right before today! It say in the box on the floor for almost a year before I finally got around to trying to install it in late 2010. And it's never been "right" before.. This has to be the world's slowest, longest dish install, ever..